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Pondering... 
16th-Sep-2011 10:07 pm
Becc_j Art
I wonder if Jared and Jensen ever see manips of themselves. There's some damn hot manips around of them together. I wonder what they think if they see them. *ponders*

My brain is off on a tangent of thoughts tonight.

So. Some ponderings..

Is Jimmy Novak dead? (I really want to know this one. Surely he has to be).

Has John actually ever said "suck it up" to one of his boys. I can't remember. (It's quoted in fic ALL THE TIME).

What happened to Dean's angel handprint (it's gone isn't it?)

Why do fanfic writers give the impala seat belts? (She doesn't have them.... does she?) That really bugs me...


Why isn't it the 23rd yet!?!?! For god's sake!! It's been FOREVER!! I'm over waiting!



(I don't expect these to be answered... they are mostly things I think about sometimes).

Also. I had this plan for a wee excitement vid before show started but I have run out of time. Instead it will be my ultimate recruiter vid (in that it will be about everything I love about this show) so I will wait and do it properly.
Comments 
16th-Sep-2011 02:39 pm (UTC)
I don't know about Jimmy (though my impression is yes, he's dead), but I do know:

- John never said "suck it up," I'm pretty sure.
- I don't think we can be sure Dean's angel handprint is gone. I think the only time we see his bare left shoulder in S6 is in his Lisa sex dream, and that's a dream, so it probably doesn't count. (Was there any shirtless Dean in S5?) It is definitely still there in "Heaven and Hell" in S4, though it looks faded. (What I want to know is, why does Dean take off the Samulet before having sex with Anna? But I digress.)
- I'm gonna go with no on the seat belts. Never seen 'em, and surely Dean would have teased Sam for using one at some point.
16th-Sep-2011 02:54 pm (UTC)
He's gotta be surely... after all that angel energy and the amount of times Cas has exploded...(probably only once but that has to be enough..).

- Cool. After reading it so many times I figured I actually missed some dialogue. (though I totally believe he would say something like that..)

-Hmm... oh yes. Didn't think of it has a dream. He was sleeping in the impala when we saw that. Good point. So it might still be there...

-I am damn sure no seat belts. (illegal in Aus to not have them. Not sure about the US. Though that's immaterial in the scheme of things I suppose..*g*).

Hee...if the Impala had them Sam would so put it on and he'd never hear the end of it from Dean. Probably why they don't have any..
xx
16th-Sep-2011 02:59 pm (UTC)
Further on the subject of the Impala's interior and fanfic, I'm pretty sure the seats are vinyl, not leather. Despite the fact that I have written about them being leather in the past, I did some research for my BB and found out they only came in vinyl, stock.

ETA: It is illegal not to use seatbelts in (most, possibly all? of) the U.S. But I'm still not convinced that they do.

Edited at 2011-09-16 03:01 pm (UTC)
16th-Sep-2011 03:15 pm (UTC)
And bythedamned mentions below that the Impala has lap belts, not the full shoulder belts.

So it appears that the Impala has them. But I can't say I ever remember them putting them on. Whether that's because of expedience or some sort of statement I'm not sure.

Curious. So writer's mention them (because they know they actually exist in an impala) even though the show doesn't...
16th-Sep-2011 02:46 pm (UTC)
oh hun, you scared me! because, yes, I do make the boys buckle up in the car, and i'm writing a story right now where Dean tells Sam to buckle up several times. And I hate getting that kind of stuff wrong.

BUT, this is what I know: seat belts are still sold for antique impalas, and this is labeled as the 1947-1976 model: http://www.impalas.com/1947-1976-chevy-seat-belt-black-chrome-lift-latch-buckle/sbl1.html (forgive my lack of imbedded links. I suck those)

And, more importantly, if you watch the featurette on the impala from the s2 DVDs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puCWPjOZ-XY) from 0:29-0:30 you can see the seat belts crumpled against the seat. They're just lap belts, not the full shoulder 3-point belts like we have now (and I think it's fairly true that people hardly every wore them back when those cars were new) but they are there.

whew. *wipes brow* saved quite a bit of rewriting there :)

also: YAAAY! Show is almost back! *does Misha-type of happy dance* and lookin forward to your recruiting vid :P (dunno if I ever commented on how amazing the jared con footage one was either. soooo enjoyable. a definite mood-lifter.)
16th-Sep-2011 03:05 pm (UTC)
Wheeeeeee! researched seat belts. \o/

Oh man. So. The boys chose not to put them on rather than them not being in the car.

Hmmmm *stroke chin*

I therefore submit that if you are writing fic the boys wouldn't put them on because they don't in the show. Or.. maybe Sam puts it on and Dean mocks him for it (as suggested by killabeez above).

The thing that bugs me is that seat belts are never seen or mentioned in the show so why are they in fic? Why do writers make a point about seat belts when the show doesn't?

And YAY Show IS almost back. \o/ And thanks! Glad you enjoyed the vid. Jared is my "happy dance".. :D

xx

16th-Sep-2011 03:22 pm (UTC)
Yikes! My comment above sounds so negative. Writers can do what the hell they like!! :D There are never any hard and fast rules to the SPN universe..

/o\
17th-Sep-2011 01:16 am (UTC)
haha, you know, I was kinda giving you silent props for sticking to something so strongly when you're surrounded by so many crazy fangirls :P now, I happened to disagree... but still. all opinions are valid. *nod*

the opinion I'd offer is this: a) we never see them wearing them, but we never see them not wearing them (why? because there are no close-up crotch shots in the Impala :P what a sight that would be) and b) without seatbelts, they would have likely all died in 1x22. that crash was brutal.

but anyway, it feels like the point of your question is not whether they're really wearing them - we can all have our own head canon on that - but more why writers tend to point it out. I guess I'd say it helps set a tone. Of responsibility or the lack thereof (or, in some cases, caretaking). It's a small action that signifies the same thing for pretty much everyone (safety), and it's much less obnoxious to say that Sam told Dean to buckle up than to go on and on in an internal monologue about how Sam's concerned about Dean and has become super vigilant and nitpicky and keeps checking up on him and reminding him to look after himself.

Unless, of course, you hate seatbelts (eyes you meaningfully :P) in which case I can see how that'd ruin a fic :D My beta goes nuts whenever someone calls Dean blond, and I guess there could be a whole discussion on that, but it just doesn't raise my hackles like it does for her. We all have our things :)
17th-Sep-2011 01:26 am (UTC)
Hee, well... I don't hate seat belts. In fact, I feel very strongly that they should be worn. For some reason though when I come across a sentence in a fic mentioning that they are buckling up I keep thinking that I've never seen them do it (and I totally go with the fact that we have not seen them "not" do it either..) so I'm not sure why it's mentioned. (Unless for a point made in a story..)

I have to admit I thought the impala didn't have them. The fact that they do makes me feel better about people writing about them. But not if it's over the shoulder ones.... that's going too far.:)

Hee. Looks like a have a bee in my bonnet about seat belts. Not really. Just something that crosses my mind when I read about them. Same with the hot water always running out in motel rooms. Something that's written about a lot but I don't think we've ever had a scene where one boy is grumbling at the other for taking all the hot water. I might be wrong of course.
17th-Sep-2011 02:04 am (UTC)
I, for one, vote for more shower scenes in general :)

I know what you mean though. I realized I'd found myself completely convinced that Sam's favorite breakfast was pancakes until I realized that has NO TRUTH to it whatsoever. And yet I'd read it in so many fics...

I guess it just goes to show, some things are only true on the internet :P
16th-Sep-2011 03:38 pm (UTC)
These are really awesome thinky thoughts and question!
17th-Sep-2011 01:29 am (UTC)
Indeed! My brain hijacks me sometimes.

:D
16th-Sep-2011 04:25 pm (UTC)
In the US, cars weren't even required to be built with seatbelts until 1968. You won't find them in most older cars. When you do find them, they're only the lap belt variety. There is a very good possibility the 67 didn't come with standard seatbelts. They may have been optional. But they could have been added after market by John. You can still do that today with older vehicles -- add a vintage-looking lap belt.

In fact, most states didn't make wearing seatbelts law until recently.

The other thing that annoys me is when people don't know the Impala has bench seating. I've always wondered how poor Sammy has to have his legs crumpled into the glove box when Dean needs to pull the seat a little closer, LOL. And she's an automatic, not stick!
16th-Sep-2011 04:33 pm (UTC)
Oh, and the other thing I forgot is that since the Impala is more than 20 years old, she would qualify for "historic" plates. Each state has different requirements of course, but the reason the boys wouldn't have them (aside from being easily recognizable) is because the historic plates limit the amount of time and mileage you can drive the car.

But if push came to shove, I would say the Impala has lap belts installed, if only to make the car road legal. If there were no belts they wouldn't be able to drive her at all.

Of course the Impala is the third star of the show and cool and all, but not very realistic. The moment that thing drove into some small town, you'd have everyone coming to look at it, from old timers to car nuts. Not a very good way to blend in. It would also be super expensive to fix, unless Bobby is mailing Dean parts every few weeks, and very expensive to fill with gas.
17th-Sep-2011 01:34 am (UTC)
Hey.

Very good points. For me the Impala is almost a magical car. In fact... a question I often wonder is is the car invisible? I mean, I know it's not but for all the reasons you make above it suggests the car has magical qualities of blending in. I know one has to suspend one's disbelief when thinking about the logistics of that car. For me it's the cost to run it. The fuel must cost a fortune.

That's interesting about the historic plates. I never knew that.

I'm going to go with the Impala having lap belts. The show just doesn't show the boy's putting them on. It's probably left up to us to decide whether they put them on or not.

xx
16th-Sep-2011 05:20 pm (UTC)
I think Jimmy Novak is not dead. His body would be dead if Castiel weren't wearing it, but Castiel's speech to Jimmy at the end of The Rapture leads me to believe that Jimmy's soul or essence will be alive until Castiel leaves that vessel.

Jimmy: Please, Castiel. Me, just take me. Take me, please.

Castiel: I wanna make sure you understand. You won't die or age. If this last year was painful for you, picture a hundred, a thousand more like it.

Jimmy: It doesn't matter. You take me. Just take me.

Castiel: As you wish.
17th-Sep-2011 01:38 am (UTC)
Ahh.. yes.

I recall that line about it being painful and I've been thinking that with everything Cas has put his body through it must be hell for Jimmy in there. I think it was easier to think of him dead than having to suffer all that.

(clearly I'm over thinking things ..*g*)

I know when Cas was pigging out on meat that had something to do with Jimmy's need. So I know he was alive then.

Thanks hun.
xx
16th-Sep-2011 06:02 pm (UTC)
What happened to Dean's angel handprint (it's gone isn't it?)

I was thinking the same thing =)

*hugs lots*
17th-Sep-2011 01:41 am (UTC)
Hey honey. *smish*

Yeah... I can't recall if we've seen a shirtless Dean since we last saw the hand print when he had sex with Anna.

It was mentioned above that we didn't see it when he was in bed with Lisa but as that was a dream it might not matter. As in, he still has it but we just haven't seen it.

Hmm...
17th-Sep-2011 01:07 am (UTC)
The Impala I saw on set a couple of years ago had lap belts. So why do people think it doesn't? Just because they don't see a shoulder harness or see the boys buckling up? They also drink and drive...

In '66, laptbelts were being put in cars :0)
17th-Sep-2011 01:44 am (UTC)
Ah! Cool. That clears that up then.

I have to admit I didn't think she did simply because we never see them or see the boys belt up. Not that we need to as such. It's just a point of reference really.

I'm thinking (now) that it's open to interpretation whether the boys actually wear them.

Thanks hun.
xx
17th-Sep-2011 09:44 am (UTC)
It's been a while since I re-watched the slightly old seasons, but I think it was once said that after Lucifer!Sam killed Castiel via the ever-deadly finger snap in the finale, Jimmy's bdody was destroyed, the soul essentially went to heaven and the image of the vessel now is Castiel's alone ever since he was brought back by the powers that be.

And I'm pretty sure the handprint is still there, we've seen no other indication of it disappearing (again, all from memory :P).

*taps impatiently for the month to move faster*

17th-Sep-2011 11:29 am (UTC)
Hmmm... so that's interesting. Lu!Sam did explode Cas at the end of Swan Song, but I can't recall anything being said about Cas returning as the image of the vessel. I really want to know that...

I will have to check that scene out again. Because if that is true then that will mean he is definitely dead....

I thought the hand print had gone because it wasn't in the scene when he was in bed with Lisa (Exile on Main St), but it was mentioned above that as that was a dream it doesn't matter. So yeah. He could still have it.

xx
17th-Sep-2011 12:49 pm (UTC)
Lol, perhaps 'image' isn't the right word, more so that the body itself was brought back for continued use, but the soul had moved on after death or such. But heck, I could always be wrong! (Or confusing it with fic 'lore' or such... always a possibility!)

Randomly, I always enjoy the juxtaposition of Dean's handprint versus the fact that we saw Sam quite a lot shirtless and sans his own mark in the last season. Imo it kinda lent me thinking towards the methods Cas had employed to 'raise' Sam back without the power of the host behind him as he'd had for Dean, and Sam thus returned not quite all there, soul-wise. I always thought that if Cas had been able to raise him from the box with all the help he'd had before, maybe Sam's soul would have been attached etc.

...Wow, need to stop fluffing about. Randomness after the football is true exhausted mumblings!
18th-Sep-2011 09:22 am (UTC)
Oooh, that's interesting. Yes, yes... Cas didn't have the full power as he did with Dean.

I can accept that. :)

I really want to check the the idea about Cas' "image" or whatever it could be called. I have seen that mentioned else where, but yeah.. not sure if it's fanon or canon...

Oh yes. Football. I didn't what it but wow.. that score line. I imagine it would have been a nerve wracking game.
xx

18th-Sep-2011 09:31 am (UTC)
Okay, because you really got me thinking about this... :P Super-wiki has this explanation regarding Jimmy:

Jimmy's body is destroyed by Raphael when he kills Castiel at the end of 4.22 Lucifer Rising following Castiel's rebellion against Heaven. What happened to Jimmy was unknown at the time. However, when God resurrects Castiel from the dead in 5.01 Sympathy For The Devil, he returns in Jimmy's body, where at least part of Jimmy's essence is still alive and present in the vessel, as Jimmy's taste for red meat affects Castiel during the events of 5.14 My Bloody Valentine. Castiel devours hundreds of burgers when Famine amplifies Jimmy's craving. Castiel and Jimmy were destroyed a second time in 5.22 Swan Song, when Lucifer causes them to explode in retaliation for Castiel's assault on Michael. God resurrects Castiel from the dead a second time, and he again appears in Jimmy's form. Jimmy's presence in the body has not been established following this second return. However, in the episode 5.21 Two Minutes To Midnight Castiel tells Dean over the phone that the doctors believed he was brain dead, so it is possible that he died and Castiel is merely possessing his body, though this conclusion is as yet unverified. At Salute to Supernatural Vancouver 2011, Misha said that he believes that Jimmy is still "locked" in Castiel as of the end of season six.

And nerve-wracking doesn't begin to cover it... omg!
18th-Sep-2011 09:37 am (UTC)
Ah. Cool. That's interesting...

If Jimmy if alive it leaves some interesting possibilities for S7.

Thanks so much for this. :)
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