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just enough to make us dangerous
9.12 episode review (and a wee pinch of rantiness) 
29th-Jan-2014 04:51 pm
KILLER WINK!


I was a little restless watching that episode. I was surprised how easily Sam slipped back into hunting with Dean kept wondering if this will be it. The episode seemed to be geared toward exploring Dean's issues - family and finding love where you can etc, but I was itching to see if Sam was actually going to get a voice. He was merrily just going along for the ride and I was thinking…what the hell?!

Thank goodness for the last 5 minutes. This may have been a seriously ranty post if Sam hadn't been allowed to say something.

(the only ranting I will do is not understanding some comments around the place about Sam giving Dean shit at the end. If anything Sam didn't give Dean enough shit. I actually thought Sam's restraint showed his maturity. He's not going to let Dean off easily for what he did and so he shouldn't. I know some people will never see anything Sam does as good enough but surely this is one thing they can sympathise with him on. I just don't get why Sam is considered to be in the wrong here. Why isn't Sam ever allowed to be pissed at Dean? I seriously don't get it. /end rant).

I was disappointed about the lack of Sam but I read a tweet that he was "off making babies". I assume that meant Gen was having their baby. Totally acceptable. At least we got some Sam.

I've always liked Garth (love how fundamentally different he is to any other hunters) and this ep was ok. Nothing startling, but after those epic first 2 episodes we probably needed a breather. It was heavy handed and there was a lot of repetition about family and monsters and love etc and I have to confess I wasn't always engaged. Actually, it felt like there was a lot of padding. Dialogue that didn't achieve a lot - maybe they had to change things around if Jared had to leave. At the end of the day it was a solid enough filler though.

I'm glad Garth didn't die. It feels like they've put him aside for a while, but at least they can go back to him later if the want to.

I enjoyed the fact that it wasn't myth arc heavy (only so much this gal can take of the demons and angels) so the werewolves made a nice change. I didn't spend much time working it all out (felt like I slipped into Teen Wolf there for a minute), I let it wash over me pretty much (mostly waiting to see if we were going to get a heart to heart at the end).

Dean was scruffy and surly and generally feeling rotten about everything (love that the dark quality from last week was still lingering). I kept thinking why is his angst only about the guilt he feels over Kevin? What about the bigger picture surrounding how that happened and maybe even consideration for how Sam must be feeling knowing it was his body doing the killing. I'm not sure the end fully addressed that, but a least Sam had a chance to bring it up. Maybe Dean will get it one day (though I'm not convinced the writers think what he did was much of an issue, so maybe not…). I did like that Dean ATTEMPTED to say sorry - it was on the tip of his tongue! It was typical Dean that he couldn't actually get it out. But the sentiment was there. I also liked that he tried the "we are family" as a cure all and Sam just didn't accept that this time. Though perhaps Dean's "took a piece of you" was an acknowledgement of the toll the possession took on Sam.

And sharing the crappiness? I did like that a lot.

I took Sam's "terms" to mean that they can work together but the trust that existed between them won't be there like it has been before. It might even mean that Sam will speak up more if Dean chooses to do something that Sam doesn't agree with. They'll never stop being brothers, but much of what is taken for granted in brotherhood might not be there for a while. Clearly Sam still cares very deeply for Dean - that will never change. (His "be careful" to Dean was a nice bit of dialogue to cement that the care still there).

I found Sam's comment about them being different in their approach to the job now a little strange. I've always felt that they were different and that's why they work together so well. They compliment each other. Maybe the difference is much greater than it used to be.

I've never really had a problem with Sam in peril but even I'm thinking we've seen it too much now. That man's head must be mush! At least he was involved (a little bit) in the "saving the day" moment. Though, poor guy being bored to death with the monologuing...

What the hell is it about the villain monologue? Could she have taken any longer to actually kill someone?! I wanted Dean to get there just so she would shut up! (this scene felt padded also…)

I like their uneasy alliance. They had to come back together somehow - they were never going to keep them apart for long - so a kind of truce leaves the door open for some serious healing later on. Sam is so right - something is broken between them. Sam has always trusted Dean, so for him to say he can't any more is huge. It's also a role reversal. At the end of S4 Dean lost his trust in Sam. It took a long time for Sam to earn that back. Now it looks like it's Dean's turn to prove he deserves Sam's trust back. I know it's hard watching them in conflict but at least that means they'll be some juicy angst (and brother soul searching) in future episodes. I much prefer this type of (organic) conflict rather than the overtly manufactured stuff we saw last year. I think the issues between them are going to be around for a while to come and may even play a large part in the finale. We'll see!

In the mean time…without saying anything too spoilery - hubba bubba next week….
Comments 
29th-Jan-2014 09:10 am (UTC)
Ha ha you and me wrote the exact same phrase about the state of Sam's head! This one left me a bit down and a bit meh.
As for the whole "Why isn't Sam ever allowed to be pissed at Dean? I seriously don't get it." Me neither. Sam should be fucking mad as hell with Dean and I kind of breaks my heart for him that he isn't MORE angry because he still feel Sam-lite to me. And this is coming from a total Dean!Girl here.
29th-Jan-2014 10:22 am (UTC)
Ha ha you and me wrote the exact same phrase about the state of Sam's head!

ha! Great minds and all that! :)

I have to say I felt a little down by the end also. It was feeling a bit meh to me and it wasn't until the end and I was left to reflect that I felt it had a bit more meat in it than I first thought.

Me neither. Sam should be fucking mad as hell with Dean and I kind of breaks my heart for him that he isn't MORE angry because he still feel Sam-lite to me. And this is coming from a total Dean!Girl here.

*phew* I sometimes think I'm not reading the situation right and perhaps seeing it too one sided. I really do feel for Dean at the moment. I actually think he really thought he was doing the right thing - I loved his acknowledging that "right is wrong and wrong is even more wrong (something like that). Things aren't clear cut and I know in Dean's heart it really does want to do the right thing. But I don't think that means that Sam shouldn't be allowed to be mad at him. I think even Dean acknowledges Sam has the right to be pissed off. Someone needs to keep Dean a little in check - and that's why I think they do actually work so well together.

They'll discover that again one day. Soon I hope!

xox

29th-Jan-2014 09:32 am (UTC)
It definitely felt like a filler episode, but it was nice to get back to monsters. Lets hope next week Sam is able to stay conscious the entire time, it's wearing a little thin.
29th-Jan-2014 10:25 am (UTC)
I think Sam has been unconscious more than conscious this season!

I like getting back to monster stories - and even when they are just fillers they still manage to give us a little of the character arc. Or quite a lot in this case.
29th-Jan-2014 09:50 am (UTC)
I was just so relieved that they were actually talking. The left-over grace, the mark of Cain, the working with Crowley... they skipped specifics but at least they talked.
And to the talk in the end, I wonder how that will play out in the future.
I think the episode suffered a lot by it's placing. It's not a bad episode but it's not in the category of First Born.

My last point is most likely a cultural thing and I'm happy for Garth having found a family for himself and all that, but marrying somebody after you know them for 2 months? At least they waited longer than Daphne...
29th-Jan-2014 02:21 pm (UTC)
I was just so relieved that they were actually talking.

Yes. I was actually quite shocked that they actually filled each other in so easily when they got together. I did wonder why Sam wasn't a little more fascinated (or concerned) about the Mark, but I figure he's still smarting from the recent revelations.

but marrying somebody after you know them for 2 months?

Ah yes. Very rapid. But I get a feeling Garth probably believed he may never find true love so when he saw it he fell head over heals (I actually though his wife might be killed. I'm glad they didn't do that).

29th-Jan-2014 10:11 am (UTC)
Gonna write my thoughts before I read your whole post or I forget what I want to say.
I didn't think Sam was just going along during the ep. I found him extremely guarded against Dean, his walls up in a way a little talk won't make it better. At least to me this is how it felt. Though I have to say the end speach was great. With Dean not realizing it is not about his feelings, it's about Sam's. And Sam made it very clear how he felt and what consequences that brings to their relationship. A very powerful speach to me because there was no drama to it. That is usually when people really mean it. When they have distanced themselves from the other and have a clear personal stand.
I also found it interesting how Dean told Sam to clean up the mess (killed cop and cow) while he will go and talk to the pastor. His usual bossing Sam around without even thinking about it. And Sam seemed to clearly notice that. At least I got that impression from the way the camera backed away from the scene, with Sam standing there alone and Dean walking away.

I really enjoyed this ep, and the werewolf story. (Religous werewolfs, lol). it made me feel a bit like the old cases. You feel there is something wrong but you can't first put your finger on it. And they tied this old case feeling into the relationship issues of all of them. As well as the question of who is a monster and who not. Lines are very blurred now. The simple rules of "monster = wrong, family over everything" are not applicable anymore. So suddenly everyone is responsible for their actions, rather than who they are. Can't rely on bloodline anymore. Conscious decisions have to be made with every single person (monster or not).
So, I enjoyed this ep a lot and now I'll read you post. :)

Lol at your villain monologue frustrations. I felt similar and thought of countless film moments where the villain talks and talks to give the hero time to arrive on the scene. It's just how those stories work I think. We get to hear why the villain is doing what they are doing and so we care even less about them. :P

I like their uneasy alliance.

Me, too. Nothing sugar coated, nothing glossed over by a hug to then carry on as always. It feels very real and makes me interested in where it will take them over time. :)

xx
29th-Jan-2014 11:18 am (UTC)
Ah you summed up this bit so much more concisely than I'd managed "The simple rules of "monster = wrong, family over everything" are not applicable anymore. So suddenly everyone is responsible for their actions, rather than who they are. Can't rely on bloodline anymore. Conscious decisions have to be made with every single person (monster or not)."
Yes!
29th-Jan-2014 12:49 pm (UTC)
I'll tell you what bothers me personally: the fact that Carver (and, in turn, Sam it seems) can't seem to differentiate between what happened in 8.23 and what happened in 9.1. The difference is a matter of choice, and was the reason that I was concerned about the Gadreel story to begin with since I don't think Carver has any idea about what was actually wrong with what Dean did.

But then again, Carver is the person that decided Dean was going to suddenly blame Sam for being soulless, so what did I expect?

I will say that I don't think Carver knows what to do with Sam. I don't think he understands the character and how profoundly he has changed since S5, and he also doesn't care enough to figure it out.

My question re: the brothers...why should we care at this point? I ended the night wondering why Sam wanted to hunt with Dean at all, and why Dean would want to hunt with Sam. If there ever was an organic place to break them up for good, last night felt like it. Now, J2 have contracts and yachts and babies to support, so that won't happen, but when the redundancy sets in and you watch an episode and are like "I swear I've heard this entire speech before", it's difficult to get excited or upset.

p.s. Gen gave birth while they were filming 9.14, so that handy excuse for a Sam-lite episode doesn't work for this one.

p.s.s. I've been watching for the pretty since 9.1 aired, so next week will probably be my favorite episode of the season, even if it's terrible lol.
29th-Jan-2014 02:52 pm (UTC)
and was the reason that I was concerned about the Gadreel story to begin with since I don't think Carver has any idea about what was actually wrong with what Dean did.

Yes. And I think the further we go the more it's becoming clear that the issue with what Dean did has become more about the final result of it (death of Kevin) rather than any lines that he crossed. But with some of the reactions I've seen from fans, many don't believe Dean has done anything wrong either. In fact, there's a lot of "why can't Sam just appreciate what Dean did?". So Carver isn't the only one not realising the depth of his decision/actions. It's also become more about the lying (which is an important part of the issue sure) and not the consideration of denying Sam his choice.

I was surprised that Sam brought up talking him out of going through with the final trial. Sam DID make a choice then. Dean can't be blamed for that. Sam didn't have a choice about his life - and yet he doesn't want to call him on that. Sam is seeing that Dean approaches the job differently - but not (yet) what he did to his own agency. If Carver doesn't matter about that - then neither will Sam.

I will say that I don't think Carver knows what to do with Sam. I don't think he understands the character and how profoundly he has changed since S5, and he also doesn't care enough to figure it out.

I have to agree to a certain extent about that - mainly because of the dogs breakfast he made of the Amelia story line (and the jealousy etc that came with it). I think there have been some interesting observations made about Sam though (the quest and his feeling of letting Dean down), but in terms of where he's come since S5 Carver's at a loss. I maintain that he's merely re-visiting older character story lines - with his own twist. Maybe he'll run out of those soon and have to create new ones (which might actually be pretty scary).

ended the night wondering why Sam wanted to hunt with Dean at all, and why Dean would want to hunt with Sam. If there ever was an organic place to break them up for good, last night felt like it.

Yeah. And this is a really good point. Someone told me (on another thread) that it makes no sense now for them to continue to stay together. The relationship is SO damaged that the only sensible thing would be to go their separate ways. And it probably would be, but then we wouldn't have a show (she even suggested that they make the show with Dean eps (for the Dean!girls) and Sam eps (for the Sam!girls). That's a little heartbreaking to me - along with the fact that they've taken this relationship to the point where people are saying - let them separate! *weeps*

Only, I don't believe that. I still think there's reason for them to stick together - not least because of what Sam said - they can share the crappiness. I think there's far too much history between them to just let it all go. I'm not feeling the end of the relationship just yet. I think (my hopeful side) that it's been stripped back so it can be rebuilt. Maybe better this time? I mean, it's never been perfect (though not relationship can be perfect I believe), but they might come to a better understanding of each other and the part they play in the other's life.

PS: Oh! So "making babies" might have been just that then! (only not…a handy excuse yet. I think Osric tweeted that)

PPS: SO MUCH PRETTY!!! I hope it's completely shallow and I can wallow in the tank top!!

(*yikes* I wrote a lot. /o\ Seems like I'm working out some stuff still.)
xx
29th-Jan-2014 01:24 pm (UTC)
I really loved this one! I definitely take your point about Dean's guilt not seeming to encompass the broader picture, but it hit my buttons in terms of angst between them, and I love the idea of underground monster societies and a hunter adapting to life as a monster. The scene of Dean sitting down to a meal surrounded by werewolves eating raw hearts had a lot of comedic value and will stick with me!
29th-Jan-2014 02:56 pm (UTC)
Hey! I think I was in a pretty bad mood when I sat down to watch this (my school changing my class year level on me the day before I return to work does that to me…) so I think I might not have been in a great head space. I will be rewatching this one! I think there were a lot of underlying messages. And the idea of underground monster societies was cool.

Ack! The meat scene was truly..er…disturbing. All I could think was what are they actually eating? It looked so real! (enough to put Dean off his pie I'm sure).

And I did like the final scene quite a lot. :)
29th-Jan-2014 01:52 pm (UTC)
I think the idea of the episode is good, the writing, not so much.
29th-Jan-2014 02:58 pm (UTC)
I haven't been able to make my mind up about the writing. I usually don't mind Adam Glass's scripts. I think there was a lot of thought put into the idea. I think it was just a little weird coming off such epic episodes. I mostly enjoyed it though.
29th-Jan-2014 02:01 pm (UTC)
Most hopeful part to me was Dean not hiding the truth of the Mark of Cain. Granted, he didn't tell the whole story, but he didn't lie about it, which I consider progress.

I liked where the brothers ended this ep, Sam challenging the 'we're family' card.

The case was a little meh--of course because Garth insists they are all good lycanthropes there has to be rotten eggs deceiving him. And he and Bess together were a little over the top...but I was watching for the Sam and Dean interaction anyway...
30th-Jan-2014 09:04 am (UTC)
Most hopeful part to me was Dean not hiding the truth of the Mark of Cain.

Yeah. In fact it became a bit of an anti climax. I'm ok with it that for the moment but if felt like Sam (or dean) didn't understand the depth of what it could mean.

I liked where the brothers ended this ep, Sam challenging the 'we're family' card.

It's so nice to hear someone say that. I keep seeing so much negativity about this scene - and not because of the writing or anything like that - more that Sam was too harsh on Dean. I thought it was pretty mild and a nice (and fairly mature) temporary resolution.

And yeah, the case didn't really grab me. I like Garth, but it became obvious pretty quickly that something was up. Shame Garth hadn't figured that out for himself.
29th-Jan-2014 02:32 pm (UTC)
I found Sam's comment about them being different in their approach to the job now a little strange. I've always felt that they were different and that's why they work together so well. They compliment each other. Maybe the difference is much greater than it used to be.

Yes, I agree, this was one of the things I found intriguing, they've always had different approaches and strengths, maybe it's still about Sam wanting out, not sure.


Haha, I love your mini rants.

I'm just stopping by with how I took that conversation, won't be popular either, but here goes.

As much as I wanted Sam to blow his stack with Dean, I'm looking at it that Sam knows Dean better than me, and if Dean's put on any spot he doesn't like the first thing he does is use his fists and the second thing he does is use his feet to walk away. I feel Sam wants Dean to understand what he did and walking away pissed just isn't going to get Sam's point across, having to ride along, work beside and see Sam all the time? Maybe. I hope so.

They also touched on the fact that Garth got into trouble working alone, the brothers have always agreed that hunting on your own is the easiest way to get yourself killed. I felt Sam still can't help loving and worrying about his brother and working with him, even if he can't yet or ever let that issue of 'brotherhood and family' over ride basic instincts of right and wrong in the future, is something he can do. I also think there's a bit of Sam intrigued and a little concerned about that Mark of Cain and what it means.

Like any addict, you can't force change, I'm hoping that by Sam taking the higher ground, staying firm and quiet and not having one huge drag our fight that Dean would probably think had fixed everything, that something might get understood, although we won't really know unless Sam's dying again and I've honestly had enough of that. At least can we get less of Sam getting clonked on the head please?

I kind of liked Dean's confusion over what had happened, I don't like the way the whole script was tilted once again towards his guilt, I don't know why they do that, but if, as you say Jared wasn't available, then maybe it's filming constraints and limits that cause that. We'll never know, maybe Jared's just better at poker or 'rock, paper, scissors' and the two of them play for the high stakes of an afternoon off when there are scenes that could have, but don't need both of them present?

Not an outstanding episode, pretty run of the mill filler filled with more of their favourite 'family and monster' anvils, but they worked the case without any angels or demons or outside research, so I guess that's a mark on the plus side.

30th-Jan-2014 09:28 am (UTC)
maybe it's still about Sam wanting out, not sure.

Hmmmm, I hope not. Surely they've covered that ground (one can hope). I felt it was Sam finally seeing how damaging Dean's decision can be. Even in the episode Sam had to pull Dean back. It's much like Dean was after John died. (but it's kind of old ground, because Dean as always been shot first. And really? After he had a friend in Benny and less that vampire girl go you'd think Dean wouldn't be so quick to judge. though he is suffering from major angst at the moment…)

Haha, I love your mini rants.

I think it's the first time all season I've really felt like letting loose. I've held back because I haven't written the entire context for why I'm so ranty - but boy. I've been feeling it from reading stuff around the the place (I really need to keep to hate free journals).

I totally agree with your reading on the ending. So much! I really felt Sam handled the situation maturely AND with love and understanding of Dean. He didn't say he didn't love Dean any more (that would be impossible), he just recognises that there are problems. The fact that Sam agreed to work together again spoke volumes of his true understanding of Dean (I just get confused why others don't see it like that - I know I am a little blinkered when it comes to Sam, but he really didn't DO anything horrible here. People are saying he's been too harsh. I just don't get it :((( )

but they worked the case without any angels or demons or outside research, so I guess that's a mark on the plus side.

Yeah. I loved that they actually worked the case together and didn't have any of those higher and lower powers to deal with. Just could old fashioned monster hunt (with family anvils of course…*g*)

29th-Jan-2014 04:18 pm (UTC)
I found Sam's comment about them being different in their approach to the job now a little strange. I've always felt that they were different and that's why they work together so well. They compliment each other. Maybe the difference is much greater than it used to be.

Maybe I heard wrong, but I didn't get the impression that Sam was talking about work here. I thought he was talking about life.

And I'm totally with you on that rant. I love Dean but he was wrong and he needs to admit it and apologize.
30th-Jan-2014 10:03 am (UTC)
but I didn't get the impression that Sam was talking about work here. I thought he was talking about life.

Ah. Could be. " No, I wish but… we don’t see things the same way anymore, our roles in this whole thing."

I suppose I took "role" to mean the role they play in the hunt. The way they approach the hunt, but yeah. It could definitely mean the role they have in their relationship. In fact, I think I like that better.

I love Dean but he was wrong and he needs to admit it and apologise.

I love him too. And he very nearly…as good as did…apologise. That wasn't easy. I've just found the "Sam then should have just accepted that and moved on" really hard to take. If he did that then Dean won't learn anything and Sam will still have a brother he can't trust fully. Oh boys. So messy.
29th-Jan-2014 05:08 pm (UTC)
So much to comment on (and agree with) here....

About your rant about reaction to Sam giving Dean shit at the end. I'm coming at this from the "Dean girl/love Sam" side of the fence. I definitely agree it was about time Sam gave Dean shit and that Sam was totally in the right to do so. It just hurt (as it should). For those of us who are so (overly)invested in these characters, and who have an affiliation with one brother or other, it's hurty to have the other brother say I can't trust you anymore and that our "brotherhood" isn't as strong. I also flashed back to the parking lot scene where Dean basically said the same thing to Sam. And now I'm remembering my reactions/feelings to that back then. It was also painful. But it was different to me, a Dean girl. I felt my reaction from a total Dean perspective. Like Dean can't be complete without Sam, so therefore Dean not trusting Sam meant that Dean was somehow....less. And while intellectually I "felt" for Sam. My visceral reaction was related to Dean.

I'm saying this because it is interesting to me to compare my reactions to the two scenes. I love both brothers, but I am a Dean girl. Makes me somehow grok how a Sam girl would reaction to the two scenes, from a different perspective.

Plus, in all honesty, there is a lot of foundational "Dean can do no wrong", "Sam is flawed" build up out there over the years. And those who may have internalized (consciously or not) the "Dean can do no wrong" may also be reacting because whatever their hearts may tell them, their minds have to be struggling with the fact that Dean F'd up.

Having said all that. I do admit that I internally eyerolled just a tad because of the okay, we are repeating a scene/theme again. But while the show does that frequently, this is likely a time when it is a good thing/interesting thing. (If I can see past my "but Dean can do no wrong" internal programming, lol.)

I totally agree with all your filler comments. Also with the fact that since this may be the ep filming while Jared's son was being born, less Sam has some level of "okay-ness."

And YES! I totally paused the playback and HAD to say to my family about what in the heck was it with TV show villains having to EXPLAIN everything! She/they could have just off'd all three of them as soon as they were captured/knocked out. But no, she had to wait til they all woke up so she could .... ramble ... on and on and on about the whys and wherefores. (Plus, and I always kinda hate to say this, don't know if it was the writing or the acting or just the uselessness of it, but it kinda wasn't even good rambling...)

I also kinda of think that Dean may not truly, totally *get* how wrong the Gadreel possession action was. He knows it wasn't right. But I wonder if he really *KNOWS* how wrong it really was. Yes and how truly selfish it was. It's one (selfish) thing to sell your soul to bring your brother back, but letting something alien into your brother, *shudders*. However, at *that* moment when Dean made the decision to trick Sam into being possessed, Dean was under emotional distress. That does not excuse it at all, just explains it a bit. Regardless, I think Dean still doesn't really understand how bad it really was.

(ACK! comment too long...)
29th-Jan-2014 05:08 pm (UTC)
I agree with your about Sam's comment about "how different their approach was". I had a bzuh? moment. Hasn't their approach and feelings about their roles and jobs *always* been different. In fact, hasn't that difference fueled a lot of previous brother-angst? (As well as brother-wonderfulness)? It seemed ... a weird thing to say.

I don't truly know how I feel about their uneasy alliance. As I watched the brothers get into the Impala at the end (and randomly wondered about leaving that semi-neat blue other vintage car behind without a comment), I felt a bit deflated that, yet again, they were at odds. But this at odds felt almost more ... resigned than anything else. Perhaps that is a measure of their maturity or just them being run down over too many years and not having other options. I'm not saying it is a bad story choice really. I guess I just had a moment of reflection and of missing the intensity of passion between the brothers (and I do mean non-Wincest passion here btw, lol, just couldn't find better words because *passion* really does say it all.)

And definitely YES about next ep. I wanted to shout that out, but decided against for the spoiler-free folks.


29th-Jan-2014 05:30 pm (UTC) -
I agree, especially about the uselessness of a lot of dialogue.
30th-Jan-2014 04:21 pm (UTC) - Re:
Hey there. :) I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt there were quite a few superfluous words.
29th-Jan-2014 05:51 pm (UTC)
Since I didn't like the last three episodes of SPN it was nice to see that I could still like an episode. I do think I'm losing my overall obsessive love and am going to be a more relaxed watcher. It's kinda sad, but the way things are going since the mid-season finale I can't feel the love anymore. I was kinda surprised that I enjoyed this filler episode much more than the last myth-arc ones. But I guess so be it. :)

I'm glad that in the tiny corner of fandom that I still lurk in most people are highly diplomatic to the actions of both boys. I know why I avoid tumblr and journals I don't trust in regards to SPN.
31st-Jan-2014 08:22 am (UTC)
It's kinda sad, but the way things are going since the mid-season finale I can't feel the love anymore.

I'm sorry to hear that hun. But I get it and it's probably a better way to enjoy it anyway - as a relaxed observer (I sometimes wish I could be like that).

I'm glad that in the tiny corner of fandom that I still lurk in most people are highly diplomatic to the actions of both boys.

Yeah. I shouldn't have gone looking to see what others thought on this one because I was genuinely shocked about the level of hate levelled at the characters. I totally understand not liking the direction the writers are taking them but to hear horrible things about either of the boys makes me sad).

I'm dreading the reaction of any eps ahead where the boys don't see eye to eye. And I have a feeling there's going to be a few times they'll come head to head.
29th-Jan-2014 08:35 pm (UTC)
If anything Sam didn't give Dean enough shit.

Yeah, but Sam knows that Dean did what he did because he couldn't let his brother die. How can you get really angry at someone for loving you too much? And if he got pissed at Dean, Dean would just angst more and think Sam hates him. I get the feeling that Sam's waiting for Dean to realize that he has to let Sam make his own decisions even if Dean doesn't like them.

I took Sam's "terms" to mean that they can work together but the trust that existed between them won't be there like it has been before.

I got sorta kinda the same feeling. :) To me it sounded more like because they're brothers, Dean will always put Sam before everything else, especially if the job gets rough and looks like Sam's gonna die, even if the stakes are high (like closing the Hell gates). But if they work like that, Sam can't trust Dean to let him finish the job if it gets tough. So it comes down to Dean having to let Sam make his own decisions even if Dean doesn't like them.

The badassery in the episode was off the scales, though, so that kept me glued to the screen. SO MUCH ACTION. :)
31st-Jan-2014 08:29 am (UTC)
I get the feeling that Sam's waiting for Dean to realize that he has to let Sam make his own decisions even if Dean doesn't like them.

Absolutely. And haven't we been down this road before? Letting Sam take Lucifer into the pit was about letting Sam make those life/death decisions. It just makes it clearer that Carver is intent on revisiting everything from the first 5 year. Only with a darker twist it seems.

But if they work like that, Sam can't trust Dean to let him finish the job if it gets tough. So it comes down to Dean having to let Sam make his own decisions even if Dean doesn't like them.

Yes yes. And it's very tough for Dean because his natural and life long instinct is to protect.

And yeah - the action was cool!
29th-Jan-2014 08:57 pm (UTC)
Sam said things pretty well at the end there, I thought, but there is still room for a lot more. I still wish they'd separate out the non-con possession from stopping the trials because I see them in completely different ways and to merge them shows why these guys are in the situation that they are.

Stopping the trials was Sam's own decision based on reality as it was. To lump it in with the non-con possession denies Sam the credit for being his own person during the last stage of the trials. I'm trying to figure out how to word this. Dean oversteps his bounds with Sam's decision-making ability an awful lot. That's one of the lessons Dean needs to learn and not just in regard to Sam. Sam is capable of making his own choices and he should be the one making them, not Dean. If Sam is blaming Dean for talking him out of the trials, that is perilously close to Dean-made-me-do-it. That's not what either guy needs here. Dean shouldn't be taking credit or responsibility for anything Sam does under his own power. He needs to back off and have Sam come forward to be his own man and Sam needs to reinforce that. (Sam needs to have a season where he's actually operating under his own power but that's another issue entirely.) It's a repeating pattern of behavior that they need to break. It's for sure not the only part of what they need to sort out and fix but it's there nonetheless. They each need to own up to the behaviors that keep this cycle going. People were commenting that they didn't understand why Sam was going with Dean and I think this is a big part of why Sam got back in the Impala where he's still the passenger. He could have gone with Dean and still drove his own car but he chose to go back 'home'.
31st-Jan-2014 03:59 pm (UTC)
still wish they'd separate out the non-con possession from stopping the trials because I see them in completely different ways

Yes! That made no sense. Sam made a choice in the church (they keep saying "they chose each other" - Sam didn't make a choice about the possession. I hated Sam "blaming" Dean for not finishing the trials (or rather that the writer made Sam say that). Sam wouldn't blame for Dean that. Stopping Sam from killing himself is different to bringing him back from the dead when he'd made peace with dying in a way that removed any choice at all.

It worries me a lot that they really aren't getting that in the show. I actually don't mind the boys being in conflict (a little bit) but I'd rather they get it right - be conflicted for the right reasons. I mean, this fight makes a lot more sense that last season's one but still - they need to be clear about what Sam actually has an issue with (I get a feeling they are really grasping to understand who Sam is at times.

Actually, I'm hoping that they can find a way for really resolving this so that maybe next season we can actually have the boys fighting side by side again and actually being awesome together.

He could have gone with Dean and still drove his own car but he chose to go back 'home'.

Oh that's lovely (that needs a gif…)
xx
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