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just enough to make us dangerous
9.21 reaction/review 
7th-May-2014 09:42 pm
It remembers me!


I really bloody liked that. Like. Really. It was epic and even though it was all demons and angels (which I normally find rather ho hum) it felt like we progressed more than we've done in ages (I'd say since the season the hiatus finale).

The "then" segment went on FOREVER so I figured we'd be in for a major myth arc episode (and after last week I was happy for that!). I have accepted that this is a season of angel and demons and if I'm going to continue to enjoy it I have to embrace that as much as I can.

And I actually did embrace it (perhaps the glass of wine before I watched helped *g*).

Put it this way. I go into each episode with absolute dread that they're going to do something to either Sam or Dean that's totally out of character and it will make me cry. Mostly, that they'll make Sam do or say something that will have fans (once again) asking him to eat a bullet (yes, my heart is still trying to heal over that one). So I think my "relief" when that doesn't happen makes me enjoy an episode even more. On top of that, if they actually have Sam being smart (and caring and thoughtful) then of course I am even happier (and we even had some Sam POV! *g*).

We also had loads of brotherly moments. I am a totally cheap audience member because give me some bro touching, some in-the-car-at-the-end-of-the-episode chat, some actual honesty between them and I am SOLD!

Sam being super smart and sassy and talking that angel into spilling the beans and then Dean playing along and them both being AWESOME together was worth the price of the admission alone. They worked as a team and I was SO SO SO SO relieved that we didn't have to sit through torture. It was a clever move because that scene was set up for us to see just how dark Dean was becoming, but it didn't happen that way. Clever!

Particulars

Dean This episode made me even more curious about the direction Dean is heading in. We got more insight into the effect of the blade and I really like the way it connects to what Dean was saying about his time in Purgatory. There's a calm (a purity, something "good") about how it makes him feel. It's not just dark for the sake of dark. It give him a lot of power and I can't help but see the parallel between blood drinking!Sam and MoC!Dean. Sam felt powerful and in control when he was addicted to demon blood. Dean feels calm - possibly even at peace - with the MoC. Things that both of them have sought. I now feel like I understand Dean addiction to it.

As corny as it was when the blade magicked itself to Dean, I like the idea of how it's drawn to him. And he to it. They are as one. This is powerful stuff.

And no, I wasn't sold with all the face pulling (and fairly weak special effects) in the climatic scene, and having Dean suspended on that wall just looked plain silly. I WISH they had the thought to have mirrored the way he was pinned to the wall in Devil's Trap when YED!John was taunting him. He was vulnerable and powerfulness in that scene. Here it was completely opposite and it would have been POETRY if they had set that scene in a similar way. Instead, I am going to imagine that it happened that way because that would have been incredible.

I loved that Dean was still mindful of Sam (picking up Sam's "play" in the interrogation room) and he even preempted Sam being pissed about him lying to him (again). But you know, I could understand Dean's thinking. It made some sense. If Sam had ended up in Abaddon's grip then Dean wouldn't be able to act as he did (and he probably didn't want Sam seeing it either). I know that it means Dean doesn't trust that Sam can look after himself (or felt that he could even plan it with Sam), but Dean KNEW what he was going to do. MoC!Dean is single minded and a man on a mission.

His "no" the end was chilling and awesome and foreboding (and kinda hot) . I think I might officially be excited about where this is going (am I wrong for wanting a really (really!) dark Dean that digs into his deepest desires?). And Jensen looked gorgeous. Ok, so I know that's a given, but even more gorgeous. If that's possible.

Sam

I continue to be completely baffled by what they've trying to do with Sam - both this season and the last, but at least we saw a competent and clever Sam who still holds deep feelings about his possession. I CANNOT TELL you how happy I am that Cas questioned him about it. If only to see that look on Sam's face and the admission that he doesn't want to talk about it. We learned more about what it was like for Sam (that he knew someone else was there and he didn't feel threatened) than we did in the first half of the season. Jared did a great job in that scene I thought.

I loved how protective he was of Dean (getting the blade out of the body and keeping hold of it) and how he spoke up about it changing Dean. Not just when he's got the blade, but how it's changing him. Sam would know of course.

I can't even think about all the other stuff that's going on for him. He mentioned more about the possession, but we only got a hint about how he felt about Dean lying to him again. I did like the "I can't believe you've lied to me again" look when he found out about Dean hiding the truth, but Sam is so damn awesome he just let it ride. He was unhappy about it but he knows so much is going on for Dean. This episode demonstrated how Sam doesn't dwell on his own issues. I might be hurt that Dean doesn't understand the depths of what he did when he tricked Sam into the possession, but it looks like Sam's absorbing it and seeing the bigger picture at the moment.

Cas

Man, this character. Ok, so we're back to kickass, leader Cas and I do like this version of him. I mostly liked negotiating, diplomatic Cas. He's more like a politician now - talking the talk and getting his "heavies" to get information. Interesting that he didn't feel he could do the "torturing" to get the info out of smarmy angel!dude - but he could ask his friends to do it for him. I suppose Sam and Dean do have a reputation (which is way I LOVE that they used smarts over brawn to get the info). I'm not sure how I feel that he used them like that, but maybe in politics you use all the resources you can.

I enjoyed Cas and Gadreel's scenes.

How hilarious was Cas's entrance?! What was that? We were supposed to laugh yes? Or did we have to think that Cas was actually a major threat? Oh man, Misha's face when he came in...

I liked that he's on a hug-greeting basis with the boys (and I smiled at his lingered hold on Sam. It feels like after everything he and Sam have been through, there really is forgiveness and caring. The fact that Sam trusting Cas was mentioned was a nice touch. I've been wanting to see this connection for a while so it was nice to see it in this episode).

All the other stuff

I think there's something wrong with me. Just like Kevin's death, I was spectacularly unmoved by Abaddon's. And I don't know why!! I should probably have been pissed because I really loved that character. She brought a great presence and sas to the screen. I think maybe because death just doesn't mean anything any more. If they want her back they'll find a way to bring her back. They might not, but when characters die I see past the emotion I should be feeling and just see it as part of the plot (maybe I should have been happy that the demon threat was gone - but there was not even any satisfaction in that. Just - well, a pretty cheesy death scene. I wonder why they didn't give us a close up of that. We'd been on a journey with that character, so I'd loved to have seen a little more out of that).

Crowley is more interesting to me now, but wow - why is he still around? Seriously?! Why don't they just kill him? He was right there!! I don't get the "when the time comes to kill Crowley we'll use the blade". Maybe Sam didn't want Dean using the blade again. Their relationship to Crowley continues to baffle me. But, whatever. I'm past thinking too hard about that. I seriously hope the climax of S9 isn't them killing Crowley. I can't imagine it will be because he's just not really a threat at the moment.

His son has been brought back as a new player yes? There's absolutely no reason for him to have be appear if they didn't have plans to use him again (unless it really was to get him to buckle to Abaddon. I don't know - seems weird if it's just for that. But maybe).

Gadreel looks to be on a redemption arc. Curious to see where that goes. Not something I have feelings about either way. Cas has made a connection with him but I can't imagine Dean or Sam feeling the same level of trust (and I hope Cas doesn't get burned for that trust - to repetitive).

I won't deny that there were some clunky moments and the directorial choices were a little odd, but I thought there was enough going on to keep my interest. There were also some classic lines - I actually laughed out loud a number of times (and "666" as Crowley's name will always amuse me). And selling your soul for a bigger willy? Ha.

So where are we now?

Abaddon is gone (and why was she even brought back? Her first death was more powerful and satisfying. Her reappearance didn't do much at all for this season's storyline - I think? Maybe just having her on screen because - yay.).

Dean is heading somewhere where they ain't no lights on.

Sam is holding it together and looks ready to provide a torch for Dean.

Cas is preparing his minions.

Gadreel is all thinky about whose side he's going to be on (set to double cross Metatron me thinks).

Crowley is funny and has feels.

Metatron is in the wind (probably writing the finale)

Crowley's son is wandering around wondering what the fuck and probably acting like Ichabod (and what problems might have been created by him remaining in the "future"?).

There are portals!! These writers (Taxi Driver peeps) like portals! A portal to Hell via purgatory and now a portal to Heaven. Insta!portal will solve all those canon loose ends! (Though there was some great canon consistency as well).


This made me feel more positive going into the next 2 episodes. Sam and Dean are at least talking and even though they aren't "supposed" to be on the same page, they kind of seem to be (I don't even know). The Mark looks like it might do something interesting and I think we're in for a twist we might not have worked out just yet. Or maybe we have. I think one will end up killing the other and there will be great angst abound at the end. But death isn't final so it will be purely about the angst.

But I'm getting used to that now.

Maybe.
Comments 
7th-May-2014 01:57 pm (UTC)
I am fucking in a rage coma over the fact that instead of giving Sam even one single moment of POV about his OWN trauma aftermath, they are using the first mention of his possession in a gazillion episodes to talk about GADREEL'S GODDAMN ANGEL MANPAIN. Like, I'm glad someone brought it up (thanks, Cas!) but what did we get out of that convo except for the fact that they are using SAM for a GADREEL REDEMPTION ARC? Like, am I crazy? Am I the only one that saw them do that and wanted to throw my dog at the TV (sorry, puppy)??

And speaking of redemption arc, of COURSE Gadreel and Crowley get theirs (or at least fleshing out) because they sail happily on the S.S. White Dick and ain't nobody gonna sink that ship (welcome aboard, Gavin!)

My boyfriend screamed "WHY ARE THEY NOT KILLING CROWLEY!?" at the TV, and I just said "he's a popular white male actor" and he left the couch and didn't come back lol.

And you know why you felt nothing when Abaddon died? Because, like Naomi, they never any time to flesh her out, because she was a plot device with a vagina. A red(headed) shirt, if you will.

A (PLOT)HOLE TO HEAVEN. HOW ORIGINAL! HOW FRESH!

I'll bet $20 right now that Demon Dean flashing his black eyes is the last shot of the finale. Let's see if Carver remembers who can CURE A DEMON WITH HIS BLOOD and can salvage that clusterfuck of a side plot in S10.

p.s. And goddamit, if they INSIST on Castiel closeups, get Misha some goddamn fucking chapstick already. I'm ready to get rid of my HD TV. And stop squinting, you fool, you look like Chad Michael Murray.

p.s.s. I had to go bake cookies after that episode, because reasons.

p.s.s.s This was cathartic! :D
7th-May-2014 02:11 pm (UTC)
Your righteous rage had me snorting coffee. So for that, THANK YOU. Your pain is my pain. ;)
7th-May-2014 02:37 pm (UTC)
I wasn't quite as keen on the episode as you; I got the feeling the writers thought they were being far more clever than they actually were. Wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out the director has mostly done sitcoms, because that's how the staging and pacing felt to me. Like a sitcom trying to be an action-adventure.

Dean:
Loved the "no" at the end. That last scene might've been the only half-way decent writing of the whole shebang. (Though I did like that Cas finally asked Sam about Gadreel, though like Tebtosca said, it felt misdirected. The convo was about Gadreel's redemption arc instead of the injustices done to Sam.) Also loved Jensen's expression when Dean finally looked up from Abaddon's pummeled body: part relief, part dull shock. Nicely played, sir!

Sam:
Clearly, they're still trying to figure out who Sam is. Maybe they should just ask Jared. OR US.

I might be hurt that Dean doesn't understand the depths of what he did when he tricked Sam into the possession, but it looks like Sam's absorbing it and seeing the bigger picture at the moment. Or maybe Sam is just so accustomed to being lied to, by Dean, it's hardly a blip on his radar anymore. :(

Cas:
I snorted too when Cas made his big musical entrance. OY.

Cas felt kinda perfunctory to me this episode, but maybe that's because I'm bored with the way angels have evolved. I used to dig them lots! But now? Not so much. They're not daunting, scary 'others' anymore. I miss that.

I'm super bad at guessing where the show is heading, but I'm pretty sure I don't care about what's been teased for the next episode. I want Winchester biz. MoC deliciousness for Dean. Sam using his leeetle grey cells. FEEEEELINGS, as the King of Hell would say. ;)
7th-May-2014 03:17 pm (UTC)
Wouldn't surprise me one bit to find out the director has mostly done sitcoms, because that's how the staging and pacing felt to me. Like a sitcom trying to be an action-adventure.

Oh, good point. I didn't notice who the director was - but there was definitely something "off" about the directing. I didn't mind the pacing so much, but I think we feel it's "slow" when the boys aren't on the screen. Well, I do anyway.

(Though I did like that Cas finally asked Sam about Gadreel, though like Tebtosca said, it felt misdirected. The convo was about Gadreel's redemption arc instead of the injustices done to Sam.)

It was. But I think we have to take what we can get. Jared made it more that was probably written. Cas needed info and the scene WAS about that. But what we got was more about the possession so I am personally thrilled about that. Cas was pretty cold about what was going for either Sam or Dean actually. He has a political agenda now and I'm not sure thinking about how Sam was feeling about being possessed was on his radar (nor what it meant for Dean to be asked to torture someone).

Or maybe Sam is just so accustomed to being lied to, by Dean, it's hardly a blip on his radar anymore. :(

I got a sense of that. A resignation. I really liked Jared's expressions during that moment. I have a feeling that he's giving Sam the stuff that perhaps the writer's don't understand. Or maybe I'm just looking for it THAT hard.

Cas felt kinda perfunctory to me this episode, but maybe that's because I'm bored with the way angels have evolved.

Hmmm, I felt Cas was essentially there to get Gadreel on side. Gadreel's double cross is going to matter in the future so that needed to be set up. we also had to see the way he's handling things. that he's in control and not afraid to kill etc etc. I'm not particularly interested in the angel stuff, but it's going to matter in the final 2 eps so I really hope they can do something interesting there.

but I'm pretty sure I don't care about what's been teased for the next episode.

Ack! More angels? I haven't watched the promo - though I do know which character returns. I'm still hoping for so much from Sam (and Dean!) in the last two eps. I hope they're not brother light. Unfortunately whenever the angels and demons are on screen the brothers get a heap less time. I think that's why I like the MoTW eps. Lot's of bros.

*clings*

7th-May-2014 03:03 pm (UTC)
I am so pissed that I'm behind on the show now and haven't seen the last few episodes yet. However, I think with all of the screen caps, GIFs and everything people have been saying about this episode I almost feel like I've seen it.

I've really gotta try to get hold of what I haven't seen and catch up before the season finale.

Does everyone still think that the last show of the season will be Dean, under the influence of the Mark (and possibly something shady Crowley has planned), turning the blade on Sam? I must admit the title certainly raises questions.
7th-May-2014 03:42 pm (UTC)
Oh you haven't seen the last few eps? (Last weeks wasn't actually SPN so no worries there..)

From all the gifs and chat you'd probably feel like you've seen it (man, I couldn't spoilt myself that much. Have you not had time to watch? Arghhh).

Does everyone still think that the last show of the season will be Dean, under the influence of the Mark (and possibly something shady Crowley has planned), turning the blade on Sam? I must admit the title certainly raises questions.

I think this is what a lot of people are still feeling. Or Sam has to kill Dean maybe. Another Sam death will be pretty damn repetitive. They mention a "twist", but I can't imagine anything happening that hasn't already been thought of. Unless they introduce a completely new character.

I can't wait to just watch so we know once and for all. Hope you get a chance to catch up!

7th-May-2014 03:52 pm (UTC)
I am a totally cheap audience member because give me some bro touching, some in-the-car-at-the-end-of-the-episode chat, some actual honesty between them and I am SOLD!

Hee. That's apparently me, too. :) That said, I also liked the episode, if a bit less than you. Abaddon's death was too soon and not really worthy of the character, I'm bored silly by the angel politics, and I seem to be needing a lot more Sam & Dean than the writers are willing to give. The moments we did get were fine, but there just weren't enough of them.
8th-May-2014 01:31 pm (UTC)
Hee..well, I have to say that it's nice to hear that some one else liked it. :) I was beginning to feel like I might have been though only one (though in other places I've read quite a few more positive things than I have on my LJ flist).

It had issues for sure, but there were enough moments that worked for me that allowed me to enjoy the overall ep,

And there are NEVER enough Sam n Dean moments. Especially when we are so desperate to see the talk. I just hope they are saving the big emotional notes for the next to eps. WE CAN BUT HOPE!

(and with them both being dads now, I think we'll seen even less of them next year. :( )
7th-May-2014 04:46 pm (UTC)
I just want to know why didn't they kill Crowley??? Made me think of watching kid cartoons eons ago where He-Man would always let Skeletor go because they didn't want to present killing the bad guy to impressionable young minds...

And why all the screen time to Gavin? Why would I possibly care about Crowley's relationship with his son? Is he going to be important next season? Yes, Sam emphasized the 'time paradox' issue, but I can't see how that would matter.

I must be on a different page than most fans about Abaddon, I thought she got an excellent death.

Just going to vent that I REALLY hate where Carver has taken the show, sigh. Bring back Sera Gamble!
7th-May-2014 06:54 pm (UTC)
Yes, Sam emphasized the 'time paradox' issue, but I can't see how that would matter.

I had to go back and look up the episode details, but if Gavin doesn't die in the shipwreck, then his watch never ends up in a museum, Rufus never steals it, and Bobby never uses it to summon Gavin's ghost to find out where Crowley's bones are buried in order to get his soul and use of his legs back. Which might not matter, since Bobby's still dead, or the writers could choose to make it matter a whole lot.

I just want to see Atropos stalking Gavin, LOL.
7th-May-2014 05:52 pm (UTC)
Yeah Abaddon's whole final scene with Dean felt meeeeeh. The room was too bright, it would have had a bigger impact if they'd been in a barely lit room like when Alistair or Famine died, or if the camera had one last high shot of her lying in a spreading pool of blood.
8th-May-2014 01:48 pm (UTC)
Yeah. I feel like there's something else they could have done to emphasise her death. I'm thinking it was more about what Dean was doing rather than actually about her death Or something. I haven't worked that one out yet. ;/
7th-May-2014 06:30 pm (UTC)
I'm feeling very thoughtful today and this is what came out:
I'm watching the show but I'm not feeling it anymore. Reading everybody else's comments here and in former reviews makes me understand why. I will continue to watch SPN but I will only start to feel the show again if/when it's once more written with passion and understanding (and respect) for the characters. If that doesn't happen I will always have Sam and Dean that live in my heart for being who they used to be and the SPN universe they represented, and what it brought me at the time, filling my heart with passionate feelings, being invested in the story, making friends online, learning how to vid (and learning that I couldn't write a fanfic if I tried. LOL). This is something nobody can take from me.
Hope I'm not sounding dramatic. lol. It's just where I'm at, sorting out my feelings.

xx
8th-May-2014 04:38 am (UTC)
For what it's worth, greyowl88, you've exactly summed up my own feelings about Show. Exactly. Very well stated. Thank you.
7th-May-2014 06:43 pm (UTC)
i dont know. agree with your review, Particulars, Sam, Dean, the other stuff, the portals to Heaven?? the last part too. too much screentime to Gavin and Crowley....

Edited at 2014-05-07 06:52 pm (UTC)
8th-May-2014 01:59 pm (UTC)
The portals to heaven will be a fix it! Show seems to love the portals. :)
8th-May-2014 04:10 am (UTC)
I'm fairly easy too, in that a few classic Sam and Dean scenes will keep me happy. I loved that I actually felt scared when the hellhounds showed up - and I wasn't expecting it! I loved seeing the brothers working so seamlessly together to 'interrogate' that angel flunkie. I loved the last scene of the boys in the car that felt like Season 1 or 2 all over again.

Some of the other parts didn't quite work for me tho - I wasn't sure if I was supposed to be laughing or taking some parts seriously (the 'Is it him?' Cas entrance for example) and the Abbadon death scene didn't grab me the way it should have. The previous Mark of Cain scenes have had me breathless, but this one just didn't. Maybe it was the lighting or the directing? I wanted to feel more than I did. Tho Dean's crazed beating after and the way Sam had to pull him out of it totally worked for me.

I wish we'd just stick with Sam and Dean and the Mark's impact for the last few episodes!
8th-May-2014 02:14 pm (UTC)
Hey!

I'm fairly easy too, in that a few classic Sam and Dean scenes will keep me happy.

hee, yes. I can almost ignore the other stuff if we get some decent Sam and Dean moments. To be honest, I didn't think we'd be getting them at this level, considering nothing has really been resolved between them. Which is the thing that confuses me the most. They had (still have?) this HUGE thing between them but it's not been addressed. Which is ok (because it may be addressed later on), except they are behaving as though things are fine between them. I'm just not sure how to read it. What we have to make of that.

The previous Mark of Cain scenes have had me breathless, but this one just didn't. Maybe it was the lighting or the directing?

I think the directing really let that scene down. I can't really pin point why else it didn't hit the emotional notes. Maybe the effects? Probably the way it was shot. It didn't feel as intimate as it should have done - and there was a bit of cheesiness in some of the shot choices.

But yes. Crazed!Dean and concerned as hell Sam was a good way to end it (as was the car scene at the end! *g*).

I wish we'd just stick with Sam and Dean and the Mark's impact for the last few episodes!

I HOPE SO TOO! But there's still all the Metatron, Gadreel, Cas and Crowley threads to pull together. I just hope all that doesn't drown out our boys.

Thanks for popping in!
8th-May-2014 08:44 am (UTC)
Wish I could agree with your enjoyment, I went through many emotions, but not that one!

Carver rehashed Castiel's entrance with dire humour, that was supposed to be funny wasn't it? But why? Floors me, just made him look dumb, shame.

To be honest, I was bored to tears with Crowley and his off spring and a lot of the angel killing more angels shit.

Mostly though I was horrified by the Sam - Castiel discussion, I guess I'm the only one who heard this, but what I got from it? "Oh, look Sam, Gadreel's a nice bloke really, didn't mean to harm you, you're just fine now and you never felt threatened did you?" And that kind of familiar shit talk makes me physically ill.

I did like the turn the interrogation took, I liked that Sam took the initiative to show 'there is another way' rather than torture, but it was a little marred by Castiel calling in his favourite dogs to do the dirty work, like an angel has never tortured before? But the smart way was how Sam turned it and I liked how they worked together there - again, though what's happened to the huge rift we spent the whole first half of the season building up to? It's like nothing's changed between them now, which I know, I'm a contrary cow, I don't like them at odds, but once AT odds, I'd like a resolution not a forgetful slide back into normal.

Sorry, but dark Dean is just not doing it for me, we've been so close to this so many times, it's too familiar, he was hacking vampires with a buzz saw and getting splattered with blood years ago, they're going to have to do something really different to get me to sit up and take notice.

The conversation in the car though, although that is familiar, Jared sold me on that, he was far more animated and intense there this time around and that worked better I thought.

To sum up, far to much demon/angel posturing and pontificating, too many bloody portals, too little Winchester story, another great female character dumbed down and instantly killed and Crowley is still alive why?

Carver need to pull some great trick of a cliff hanger to keep me hanging in for another season of this.

8th-May-2014 03:00 pm (UTC)
I have to say I'm not sure why I was fairly satisfied with this episode. Most of the commenters here didn't like it and I'm feeling a little out of step...;) I get why (and I agree with all the observations), but I was almost bouncing during a couple of moments so I think that helped me a lot. I excepted at LOT worse. I keep expecting them to completely forget Sam's possession so when we get a scene referencing it I and a happy camper. We also had a Sam and Cas scene (which made me happy, even though it was cas trying to get intel from sam) and we had the boys talking. So yeah, as I said above...I'm cheap!

Carver rehashed Castiel's entrance with dire humour, that was supposed to be funny wasn't it?

I'm not sure how much Carver would have had to do with this. I blame the director. In fact, I think it was meant to be serious. I think we were supposed to believe Cas was a threat - but the whole scene was melodramatic and felt more like bad TV than even an attempt to be funny.

Mostly though I was horrified by the Sam - Castiel discussion, I guess I'm the only one who heard this, but what I got from it? "Oh, look Sam, Gadreel's a nice bloke really, didn't mean to harm you, you're just fine now and you never felt threatened did you?" And that kind of familiar shit talk makes me physically ill.

Yeah. I think that's the reading some have had for sure and now that I've read that interpretation I can see why people have been horrified by it.

I'm not sure why I wasn't. I think because I was so happy that a) it was Sam and Cas having a talking scene (and not Cas and Dean) and b) the possession was at least mentioned. I also think I have truly reconciled that sam's feelings about the possession are not a major part of the narrative. It pisses me off NO END but I went into this episode (and will do so for the next two) with no expectations about them addressing that. If they do I will be trilled. If they don't I won't be surprised. Massively disappointed (and I will rant majorly after the finale), but I'm done fuming about it (for the moment).

I have a heap of thoughts on that scene and I've tried to write them out but I just can't express them clearly (I've deleted paragraphs trying to!). I'll keep mulling on it and see if I can make sense of it later. I am mostly feeling like the scene was two fold and was very much in the style in which they like to deal with Sam's POV. Namely - indirectly.

though what's happened to the huge rift we spent the whole first half of the season building up to? It's like nothing's changed between them now, which I know, I'm a contrary cow, I don't like them at odds, but once AT odds, I'd like a resolution not a forgetful slide back into normal.

This! What the hell is with that?! I just don't get it. They are actually talking. Dean came right out and explained why he lied. Sam accepted it and it's as though nothing has happened between then. And even though I hate them at odds, I want it addressed and not skipped over. I figure it's still to come, but I can't be certain about that.

Your summing up matches my thoughts. But the things I loved - the interrogation scene, the moments of them working together, the wonderful Sam face when he was remembering the possession and the scene in the car - were enough to make me like it rather a lot. But, as I said...I'm kinda cheap! :)
8th-May-2014 12:45 pm (UTC)
Dean is heading somewhere where they ain't no lights on.

Sam is holding it together and looks ready to provide a torch for Dean.


Beautifully said. Honestly, the boys' interaction was really the only thing keeping me going this ep (+ Cas' lingering hug with Sam ♥).

Ugh. I don't mean to pop in and whinge...but Abaddon. /o\ Underwhelming death scene much? For me, it completely negated her entire arc b/c I'm all, "why'd they bother?" It was so anti-climactic.
What rams that home even more is that I'm currently in a rewatch of the show (just finished s2 ♥♥♥) and I have one word for ya (or rather anagram): YED. He's probably rolling over in his grave.

There are things about Show that I just don't recognise anymore - foreign elements that are invading long established truths. What makes sense one ep, is retcon the next. IDK...I despair only b/c I love it so. I just wish so much hand-waving wasn't involved.
9th-May-2014 12:57 am (UTC)
Hey!

And pop in an whinge away! (lots of other have!).

I think the "why did they bother" is how I felt when she died also. I just. She was such an interesting character (potentially) and nothing really came of it. I was hoping she'd become the Queen of Hell (because I loved the Crowley could be knocked of his perch), but it wasn't to be.

YED. He's probably rolling over in his grave.

Yes! And that reminds me about how truly awful and threatening he was. And had a major story line. His death was fabulously handled.

I despair only b/c I love it so. I just wish so much hand-waving wasn't involved.

Amen. This, I think, is how many are feeling. We desperately WANT to continue to love it because of our history with it. But when we see the characters we love pulled apart in such a way that seems cruel and passionless we despair.
8th-May-2014 06:54 pm (UTC)
This episode demonstrated how Sam doesn't dwell on his own issues. I might be hurt that Dean doesn't understand the depths of what he did when he tricked Sam into the possession, but it looks like Sam's absorbing it and seeing the bigger picture at the moment.

I'm sure that Dean "gets" it (which is why he went through his "i'm poison" phase) and he also knows that he did what he felt he had to, to save Sam's life. He's already being punished for it by Sam saying they're not brothers or family. It's time for them to find a way to mend this.

We learned more about what it was like for Sam (that he knew someone else was there and he didn't feel threatened)

I loved this scene. I've been wanting them to confirm what I've felt all along... that Gadreel wasn't a threat to Sam, showing that he had good intentions toward him. It also makes me more hopeful that Gadreel will get redemption. I also loved the way he described it, as not exactly being a possession, but like sharing a house.

I've pretty much given up on them giving us much of Sam's pov, directly. I mean, we got nothing from Sam after what happened in The Born Again Identity, so why should we expect it now? So yes, I'll take it like this, with Cas questioning Sam about the possession, because he needed to know more about Gadreel. Also, it was a mostly positive view of Gadreel, which was a great thing to hear.

Also, what little pov we've had from Sam, I haven't been happy with (his talks with Dean about wishing he had died, them not being brothers anymore, etc, etc), so if we do hear more from, I want it to be something different than that.

My guess is they're not killing Crowley yet, because he's been useful to them. Though they didn't make that clear why they changed their minds, since they were ready to kill him a few eps ago.
9th-May-2014 01:29 am (UTC)
I'm sure that Dean "gets" it (which is why he went through his "i'm poison" phase

Yeah, only he really really doesn't. Or, if he does they haven't shown us that yet. He's thinks he's poison because of the people who have died because of him. So - Kevin in this case. Unfortunately the "poison" has little to do with how he felt about what he did to Sam. If it did, then we'd be getting somewhere.

I've been wanting them to confirm what I've felt all along... that Gadreel wasn't a threat to Sam, showing that he had good intentions toward him.

Unfortunately that almost doubles the horror. It's like saying - you shouldn't feel bad about the rape because the guy was just a "lost" soul and misunderstood. He actually had good intentions, so you should be ok with it. *shivers*. Some do compare what happened to Sam as rape - I don't as I think it's a supernatural construct, but I think the non consensual aspect can be compared. Making Gadreel "good" will most definitely deny Sam any real feelings about it. Now, they may chose to really examine that - perhaps Gadreel and Sam will talk about the need for redeeming "wrongs", but if they forgive him for killing Kevin then I will have words.

I don't mind a redemption arc for Gadreel as such - as in he ends up helping them maybe - as long as he's never forgiven or it in ANY WAY negates how Sam feels about it.

What I LOVED about the scene is that we did get to see how traumatised Sam still is. Even though he's known that Gadreel was not a threat, he still has strong emotions about being possessed - it hasn't suddenly made it ok (thank god!). If Jared had not given it that level of emotion I would have been the one ranting on this post and not just some of my commenters.

his talks with Dean about wishing he had died

He was ready to die. He didn't wish he had. He made his peace and couldn't see an alternative - he wasn't fighting it either (which, is sad in itself, I know).

Also, it was a mostly positive view of Gadreel, which was a great thing to hear.

ha! I did think of you in this episode. :) I knew you'd be happy to see that Gadreel is looking more positive. I'm easy either way - I just hope it's not for the sake of Sam. In fact, it would be even more powerful if they made the statement in the show that it's not about whether the person is "good" or "bad" - it's the act of being possessed, without control that's the issue. Ooooh, I hadn't thought of that. (of course, I don't believe they'll do it, but one can hope).



8th-May-2014 08:14 pm (UTC)
I am a totally cheap audience member because give me some bro touching, some in-the-car-at-the-end-of-the-episode chat, some actual honesty between them and I am SOLD!

Ditto.

Does the boys not killing Crowley have something to do with the weird faux-hunter test Crowley put Dean through in the bar in 9x17? Because otherwise it seems really damn odd that the boys didn't kill him now. Or maybe killing powerless!slightly-human!Crowley just felt too cruel? Although Dean would've probably more than glad to get to kill someone. *thinks*

Abaddon's death scene should've carried more weight. The writers should've given it more time and cut the unnecessary hell hound scene. Or at the very least Abaddon hanging on the Blade should've been made to look more convincing instead of her looking like she's levitating. I get that Dean was a man on a mission and that she didn't really have a chance against the Mark and the First Blade and the new #1 Knight, but the scene could've really used more gravity (literally, in the case of levitating!Abaddon).
9th-May-2014 01:34 am (UTC)
Or maybe killing powerless!slightly-human!Crowley just felt too cruel?

Yeah, I did wonder that. But surely they can't see past everything he's done. I dunno. I think the show just doesn't want him dead (yet) so is delaying it. Just wish they'd give us a good reason.

The writers should've given it more time and cut the unnecessary hell hound scene.

Hmmm, yes. I wonder what that was about? Maybe just to create some action? It didn't serve any purpose really. Perhaps just a reminder of Crowely's control.

but the scene could've really used more gravity (literally, in the case of levitating!Abaddon).

Bwhahaha...I wish they had used more gravity! I get that the lift was to demonstrate Dean's sheer power, but it kinda looked corny, so lots some of the impact.


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