Log in

No account? Create an account
curled around these images
just enough to make us dangerous
9.23 reaction 
21st-May-2014 07:55 pm
Hot not plot!

I had a huge reaction post written out but decided it was far too negative and started to make me cry so I decided not to post it.

I will say that I didn't mind watching the episode (made all the better because I had zebra363 with me) but in all honesty it left me feeling pretty much nothing. Empty. Blank. Perhaps a bit annoyed, frustrated and sad.

I love these characters too much to see them wasted like this. To have them at odds all season just so we can have "near" apology scenes and confessions of "I lied". :(

For a whole season to mean absolutely nothing. To have gone absolutely no where. *sobs* (and not the good *sobs* - only S8 and S9 have reduced me to tears over loss of the show I fell in love with).

I need more time to process. I'm sure I will shake these blues away and find something salvageable here.

Though I'm thinking until Carver leaves I'll never see the Sam and Dean I grew to love.

I'd say they've already created their spin off. We watched it this season.

(PS: please, if you loved it and want to squee please feel free. I need to know it's worth hanging on to. I need to know that this is just all part of a plan to build this show back to something we recognise. I need to know that they didn't make Sam say important stuff only to have it completely and utterly ignored for a reason. I need to know that this hasn't just become the worst, predictable, most boring, fan servicing pile of... )
21st-May-2014 12:05 pm (UTC)
I will tell you why you are feeling nothing -- the Winchesters are no longer the heroes in this story, and their position as such as been completely usurped.

Most egregiously, as has been done all this season, Sam didn't get to do anything effective last night besides the initial finding of the trailer park. Gadreel ("friend"... REALLY?) had his completely unearned redemption arc moment, allowing our hero Cas to be the one who REALLY saved the day, AND took down Metatron, using brains instead of brawn (a direct contrast to Dean, our former hero's, epic failure)

Sam got knocked out for the main fight. He didn't get to Dean on time. He didn't gank Metatron fast enough when he was back to an angel. He didn't manage to stop Dean before he died. And, most of all, he didn't even get to be the one to offer a deal, because Crowley came in and literally took his version of the ABHL II monologue. So even his "I lied" was for naught, because he didn't get the chance to prove it either way.

And honestly? And you know how much I adore J2 but...they just didn't sell it last night. Compare it to last year's finale in the church, which was infinitely more emotional and visceral and, frankly, better-acted and written, whether you agree with the content of that scene or not. And you know why? Because it was about the two of them, and their history, good or bad. Not just a rehash of better scenes. *salutes Carver*

Note: for the record, my boyfriend was watching it, so it was either hide in my room or watch and see what y'all were talking about today lol. I'm personally a resounding ball of meh.
21st-May-2014 12:12 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed it. It's been a long time since I actually felt something watching a SPN episode, and I think Jared and Jensen made great performances. Maybe because this season -and the one before that were so crappy,I'm biaised, but I think it was a great finale. :)
21st-May-2014 12:11 pm (UTC)
I'm with you my dear, I did enjoy the episode but not in the deep and committed way I have done in the past and that was because I think no matter WHAT they had done in one 45 minute slot there was no way to retrieve the rest of this wasted season. I've said elsewhere - this would/could have been awesome if they'd condensed the interesting parts of this season into 11-12 episodes and made this the mid season hiatus finale. Then we'd have had the 2nd half where Sam was trying to rescue/save Dean from the Blade and the demonic transformation in a way that wouldn't leave Dean as a rotting corpse...

I think you and I have gone through the same process of disillusionment this season. Sigh. It makes me very sad.

But I'll still watch next season. I can't leave now.
21st-May-2014 12:37 pm (UTC)
It's weird. I was on the edge of my seat watching it because I kept thinking it was going to go somewhere really interesting. And then there were these long Metatron talking scenes and angel scenes and predictable Sam getting knocked out so he can some and "save" Dean (only he didn't) scenes and then by the end the black eyes were the icing on the cake of - oh. They actually did go there. Just as everyone had predicted.

I will watch next season as well because I'm too invested. But I doubt I'll write reactions anymore. There's just nothing to say. Creating a whole season that essentially amounts to nothing for Sam and Dean means there's nothing left to write about. Sadly.
21st-May-2014 12:18 pm (UTC)
{{{{hugs}}}} of sympathy!

I don't care enough to watch it. I mostly blame fandom for my level of disengagement, though. The versus b.s. of this season was too much for me. It was too much for me in S4 (and 5) when the show was actually still mostly good. To go there when the show is flailing around aimlessly… no, thanks.
21st-May-2014 12:41 pm (UTC)
Thank you sweetie.

Show and some elements of fandom have been pretty horrid this season.

In some ways, I feel a weight lifted off my shoulders. It'll be easier not to care any more. Sad of course, but I will always love the characters I originally fell in love with. And hopefully continue to enjoy the fan works it produces.

And there were some nice SamnDean moments that I'm sure we'll see a million gifs of. Out of context I can enjoy them.
21st-May-2014 12:39 pm (UTC)
This makes me sad,Ash.
I loved it.

I felt that this finale was all about the brothers.I really felt their connection and that they love each other..no matter what..

I agree that we didn't get much from Sam's point of view but when have we ever?

Certain moments will stay with me forever and i am looking forward to where Season 10 takes me..
21st-May-2014 12:52 pm (UTC)
It makes me sad too. Like, really. But I've reached this point a few times since Carver took over. I've almost run out of sadness now because it's been building all season.

And I agree - there were lots of lovely brother moments - it;s just because they didn't amount to anything in terms of their relationship (no new understandings, no new growth, no appreciating what's happened before) that even those couldn't salvage it for me. I loved seeing them, don;t get me wrong. But having a reveal that Sam "lied" is equivalent to Sam confessing he loves Dean. We know that and have known it since the first episode. Now, if they touched on why he "lied" it might have meant something. But that was never the point.

I agree that we didn't get much from Sam's point of view but when have we ever?

Yeah. And it's all just too much for me now. There's only so much of Sam the cardboard cutout that I can take. Not to take away from Jared - he's done remarkably well with very little.

I think when and if they actually mend this relationship I will be able to look back and see how this season fits into the overall relationship arc. In the mean time I'll be left with wondering what exactly Dean was proud of. How they kept failing this season? Or maybe how they keep fighting even though they don't stop to actually think about the consequence of their actions.

But yay hun! I'm so happy it worked or you. And in fact, I know it worked for so many and I am truly happy about that. And maybe in a couple of weeks I will be able to look back and enjoy what we did get much more. In fact, I'm sure I will. :))
21st-May-2014 12:40 pm (UTC)
Forgive the incoherent ramblings of an overworked, sleep deprived person ahead of time.

I don't know if it was because I read too much speculation about the finale beforehand but it just left me flat.

We can get a whole elaborate scene when the brothers are pissed off at each other or doing each other wrong. But when they're making up they can't say more than five words to each other before cutting each other off or we get "I lied." And some hugging and crying. That's just ridiculous.

And of course we talked about the fact that they aren't heroes anymore. They've lost their own mission.

I just don't think there's a solid direction anymore. I feel like the storyline is all over the place and there are so many loose threads that they've lost track of as writers. For example Abaddon was taking people souls and raising her own army for this battle. Now that she's dead, what is happening to that army she was raising. Did the writers just forget about that? Or was that just a nice plot device for that one episode? And that's just one example of so many missteps this season and it's a minor example of that.

I'm not someone who can do all dark, all angst. What I have loved about this show is that it always brought some lightness, some humor in the midst of a horror show, especially with moments between the boys. It has also lost that. I have to think hard about the last time it made me smile or laugh, especially with moments between the boys. And looking forward to next year, I have to wonder when, where and if those moments might come.

21st-May-2014 01:26 pm (UTC)
I just don't think there's a solid direction anymore. I feel like the storyline is all over the place and there are so many loose threads that they've lost track of as writers.

THIS! I mean, I get leaving some threads loose to pull later, but the sheer quantity of them in Carver's tenure? I could knit a sweater.
21st-May-2014 12:42 pm (UTC)
I feel like, I kept wishing for that one thing the show promised in the beginning of this season, and after one year's searching I finally realized the thing had been tramped on and deserted and forgotten long before, and the background noise of Metatron's laughing just won't stop. Yeah I still hear it now.
Actually I know Metatron has nothing to do with my depression. Or, maybe a little.
Maybe there's still one good thing: Demon Dean looks hot.

Edited at 2014-05-21 12:45 pm (UTC)
21st-May-2014 01:46 pm (UTC)
Yes. That. I had my hopes up too high. I just have to accept that.

Demon Dean should be crazy hot! And I wonder if he'll keep it a secret from Sam for a while. Though Sam will be puzzled about him suddenly being alive so...hmm..

(I am NOT going to speculate about what they'll do with next season. I am going to go in with NO HOPES AT ALL!).

21st-May-2014 12:54 pm (UTC)
I'm torn on it. On the one hand I have this terrible, fragile hope that maybe it'll get better next season, but on the other hand I feel like I've been hoping for that for a long time and not getting it. But I'll be back, I know I will.

There were moments and elements that I liked. I liked that some attempt was made at a rapprochement - not that it was a good one but I feel like starting off next season with an assurance that Sam won't give up on Dean combined with the demon eyes is a better place than some ways it could have gone.

On the actual episode front - acting wise, I really felt that nobody brought it at all. It's kind of sad that the one person I wanted to see more of was the redheaded angel denouncing Metatron. As for the structure it was dire. So. Much. Talking. I livestreamed it with a friend who doesn't watch SPN at all and only knows it through me and she was puzzled at the sheer quantity of Metatron and how boring he was, which pretty much says it all.

I think there are salvageable things there, and that they'll be more apparent on a rewatch. I also think there's a set up for a potentially much more interesting core-idea in s10. But I'm an eternal and irritating optimist.

Edited at 2014-05-21 12:54 pm (UTC)
21st-May-2014 01:29 pm (UTC)
But I'm an eternal and irritating optimist.

Me too, punkin, ME TOO.
(Deleted comment)
21st-May-2014 01:54 pm (UTC)
yay! That's great. I think if I hadn't been spoiled for the ending I might have been more shocked.

Still curious to see where they go with it. Demon!Dean might be veeerryyy interesting.
21st-May-2014 01:11 pm (UTC)
I've been watching this season with a different filter, because this is not the show of the first five seasons (obviously.) This year, especially, I've been trying to make sense of wtf Carver has been trying to do. Still dunno.

I used to want Kripke (and Edlund) to return to the show and see it out, but I don't know if they'd have it in their hearts. (Edlund has already declined fandom's kind invitation. ;)) Earlier this season, I was going through the heartbreak you are now, ash. The realization my old show is long gone. This new one is...something else. It's kinda like comparing my life before kids and my life after; it's still my life, but a whole different animal.

So I still enjoy the pretty and the genre, and I'll still be using the canon for fandom fodder, but I think Tebtosca hit the nail on the head: the Winchesters are not the heroes of the story anymore. But isn't that the way with heroes? Feet of clay and all.

J2 did a sturdy job, but I never quite bought Dean's addiction. Amber1960 had a great point in that this season should've been condensed by half, with the later eps focussing on Sam's quest for a cure. Then Jensen could've really amped up the grim urgency of the MoC. Carver's pacing was shit. (Who knows how much of this was network-dictated, though. I try to keep, in the back of my mind, the reminder that TV shows have multiple demands placed on them, the least of which is fandom expectations.)

So...no, no surprises. I'm frankly relieved. I am looking forward to seeing what Crowley is up to, some delicious demon Dean, further Sam and Cas scenes, and hopefully, a return to Mystery Spot Sam. Hey, if Carver is into recycling, that's a tasty Sam to revisit...
21st-May-2014 02:06 pm (UTC)
This new one is...something else. It's kinda like comparing my life before kids and my life after; it's still my life, but a whole different animal.

I like this comparison. :) I haven't been one to complain about the difference too much because I've always felt like it was actually on track to somewhere. I mean, the show has to change and I totally accept that. What hurts is that I enjoy trying to see the connections and the threads. I like to see how the characters are developing and how an overall story arc works. But it feels like there's no point trying to connect the dots because they clearly don't join up. Nothing that Sam and Dean went through in the first half of the season meant anything to the last half. I wouldn't have minded that if the first half had been resolved - so I've been hanging on and hanging on. And it's only now that i can look back and see the whole season and think...what the hell was that all about?

But isn't that the way with heroes? Feet of clay and all.

Yes, I suppose so. And actually if the story was one about the nature of heroism then I could accept that. But I have a feeling it isn't. Or maybe I'm wrong - perhaps I'm just not seeing that at the moment.

I didn't buy the addiction either. I was pleasantly surprised when Dean started coughing up blood (twist!), but leaving the full on addiction so late in the season is puzzling - it would have been great to see that build up earlier.

Also - I wonder why Sam was never seen to be trying to work out how to get rid of the Mark. He seemed fine with him having it (maybe knowing he made a good weapon?). The Sam we know would have been doing all the research as soon as he knew Dean had it.

I am relieved as well I have to say. I'm also glad for the break. I am hoping to rekindle my love over the hiatus. And perhaps go into the next season not so invested. Or at least remember its a different animal. :)
21st-May-2014 01:16 pm (UTC)
My problem is more that it ISN'T giving us something different from the Sam and Dean we fell in love with. It felt like it was trying to give us ~feels~ that have been stale for a few seasons now, and bringing home the lesson that there can be no change or progress, ever, only recursion.

Maybe later I will be able to consider that grimly effective. Maybe "I'm proud of us," was meant to be empty. Maybe the story of Sam trying to define family as something other than the Winchester sacrificial model and failing miserably and falling back into the mold is moving. Maybe Dean still being the guy who 'protectively' nullifies Sam's choices by knocking him out is meant to be horrifying -- just because he's not saying it's a dictatorship doesn't mean it still isn't Dean making a decision for Sam and imposing it by force. But it feels sort of like the show went around thinking it might try some new and different flavors for sustenance and then decided fuck it and just ordered a pizza. A pizza that was cold and congealing by the time it arrived.

However, I'm not made of stone. Jared's messy crying still does things to me, no matter how exasperated I am with the context. And I think demon!Dean could have potential. At very least, I think it will be something Jensen can do more interesting things with than his frankly pretty awful crazed by bloodlust performances. He's an actor who is better at subtle.

I really enjoyed Gadreel. Why couldn't we throw out all the other minor characters and keep him, instead of being stuck with Metatron? Crowley I'm a bit bored of, but at least he still has interactive chemistry and his plot potential is less grandiose and more interesting.
21st-May-2014 01:34 pm (UTC)
I agree with every word of this. Even though I do tend to like cold pizza better than hot, IRL...
21st-May-2014 01:24 pm (UTC)
I think I agree with almost all the longer comments here... My positive reactions after the episode were:

I really like Jensen and Jared and want them to have job security and a work environment that gives them joy (I wish everyone had that!), and a crew that's been together mostly for 9 years gets to continue doing what they love with people they love - that's all good.

I don't have to avoid spoilers and interviews now. That's good.

And *maybe* we'll get more of Sam's POV in season 10?

But mostly - yeah. What you said. (I didn't even like Jared's hair!)
21st-May-2014 01:36 pm (UTC)
I have this vain hope Jared will grow his hair all summer, spend lots of time waterskiing so he gets tanned and sun-blonded, and then we'll pick-up S10 a few months in so he keeps it all. :)
21st-May-2014 01:25 pm (UTC)
Dean girl here. Didn't shed so much as a tear during Dean's climactic death scene. How much do you have to mess up a show to achieve THAT?

I enjoyed it somewhat more than you, but "love"? Nope, not at all. :(
21st-May-2014 08:04 pm (UTC)
Me too! And I WANTED to. But nope.
21st-May-2014 02:19 pm (UTC)
Sympathies. I was where you are four years ago. *hug* It gets easier when you are able to watch the show without caring so much. Or at least, it did for me. But I am looking forward to demon!Dean, because I would love to see whether there's a personality shift for Dean now, away from feeling responsible for Sam. Something to put them, finally, on equal footing - or make Sam's feelings about Dean change as well. It could be the healthiest thing that has ever happened to them, ironically.
22nd-May-2014 06:26 am (UTC)
[i]But I am looking forward to demon!Dean, because I would love to see whether there's a personality shift for Dean now, away from feeling responsible for Sam. Something to put them, finally, on equal footing - or make Sam's feelings about Dean change as well. [i/]

Is this the game changer that Carver said it to be? One thing I'm sure and never have a doubt about Dean's personality is that he loves Sam and always feels responsible for him. It's ingrained and like it's been coded into his DNA or something. Now that Dean is a demon, will that change? Or will Dean becomes a special demon because he's turned by the blade? Unlike average demons (including Crowley) who are turned in Hell (getting tortured and be a torturer). Can is able to fall in love.
21st-May-2014 02:37 pm (UTC)
I was left feeling like this was an okay episode but not finale worthy. Too much plot was too much pushed into the 45 minutes. We couldn't take in/grieve the loss of Dean with Sam- I mean AHBL was a two parter! So to cram it all in made me feel like we didn't get what we had been waiting for.

I started re-watching S4 when the comparison was made by fans and I can see some of it but then again it makes me ache for that show. I've started S5 and watched Abandon All Hope yesterday afternoon and cried over Ellen and Jo's deaths again, and hated watching Sam listening to Lucifer's plans for him, with all that emotion on Sam's face. I didn't cry when Dean died during the finale, it didn't hit me like the losses of previous seasons - probably because of the rush... we barely got the grieving of Sam over his brother. I would have loved a powers almost gone Castiel grieving with Sam or Sam begging Crowley to save Dean but... it didn't go there.

I liked the earlier comparison by Quickreaver to life before kids and after kids, I think that is true with this show. Different feels and I need to 'let it go' as the Frozen song says and enjoy the 'spinoff' for what it is.

I am looking forward to how they deal with Demon Dean. I have read some great fanfiction with Demon Dean trying to control Sam- an over extension of who Dean normally is... and those stories have been creepy good so...*fingers crossed*!

And the stuff they did give us last night should spawn some great fanfiction!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts all season, I may not have commented every time but you better believe I read them all and enjoyed your thoughts and your friends comments! :)
22nd-May-2014 01:58 pm (UTC)
We couldn't take in/grieve the loss of Dean with Sam- I mean AHBL was a two parter! So to cram it all in made me feel like we didn't get what we had been waiting for.

Yes! It felt like so much and yet strangely not enough.

I didn't cry when Dean died during the finale, it didn't hit me like the losses of previous seasons - probably because of the rush... we barely got the grieving of Sam over his brother.

That's because Sam's emotions don't really come into play. The end game was Dean turning into a demon so spending time over Sam's emotions wasn't important for them. Much like his emotions this season. Pretty much avoided.

I'm hoping to see some awesome fanfic too. I love controlling Dean in fanfic (kink!) but not so much in the actual show. we've seen a lot of controlling Dean lately and I'd love to see Sam re-claim some control. And importance in the overall writing of the show.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts all season, I may not have commented every time but you better believe I read them all and enjoyed your thoughts and your friends comments! :)

My pleasure! I have enjoyed it chatting with everyone. There's always such interesting comments made. :))
21st-May-2014 02:42 pm (UTC)
I got nothing...

I'm thinking until Carver leaves I'll never see the Sam and Dean I grew to love.

This! *sigh*

I thought my newly adopted, changed attitude on how to watch the show would carry me through the finale. It didn't. There is just too much that doesn't make sense. To name one little moment that, for some reason, was the last straw that broke the camel's back: When Metatron was called out as a fraud, this angel said: He is a fraud. Not a miracle worker but an angel! - He said that to the crowd of normal people who would love to have an angel from heaven with them doing miracles. But it was acted out as if had announced a demon and people would gasp and feel threatened. That just doesn't make one bit of sense. I know this was just a little thing that could easily be handwaved. But for me it stands for all the incoherency going on, thrown at us, hard and fast. (Unless Metatron is talking.. and talking.. lol).
I'm not feeling much, you know. Just a faint sadness, because there is no denying for me anymore where I stand with this show.

A thought on the side: I noticed that some recent shows like DaVinci's demons (and some others that don't come to mind) have a rather incoherent storyline/character developements. It's all about the sensation spectactle. (Not sure I'm wording this properly). I'm wondering if this is the "new way" of telling TV stories. I know there was a comment like that before suggesting something similar.

I chose the Bobby icon to hide in the good old days. Makes me feel better. ;)

Edited at 2014-05-21 03:26 pm (UTC)
22nd-May-2014 02:10 pm (UTC)
Hey honey.

Excellent point about Metatron. In fact, that whole scene really really annoyed me. I wrote about it in my review that I didn't post. It also makes no sense that all those homeless people would turn into murders. How did they get to be a bunch of people kicking and hurting that guy? It was such a disturbing scene - for no reason. It did show that humans were as much "sheep" as the angels were that decided not to follow Cas. Maybe there's a comment/theme here but I'm not counting on it. I'm tired of trying to make sense of it all.

Also - I couldn't believe that Sam referred to Gareel as one of their "real friends". That just made absolutely no sense. Since when? I can accept Sam realised that Gadreel can help them and accept him, but to consider him a friend like Cas just made me...O_O.

And yes, a comment was made on the last post about incoherent story telling being the new norm. I'd like to think that was a thing, but to be honest I think it's just missing the mark. They have so much lore now with angels and demons they keep losing the threads.

I DID like Castiel's "I just want to be an angel". There was something very plaintiff and honest about that. Of all the characters I think Cas and Gadreel had the best character arcs. Sam and Dean were just the side show. Used cheaply to make us feel stuff.

It makes me sad to think like that, but this season has been tough going.
21st-May-2014 03:17 pm (UTC)
For me, so much of this ep was anti-climactic because they've done it before. When Sam died in AHBL, that was genuinely shocking. When Dean died in NRFTW, it was surprising that a whole season devoted to saving Dean had come up short. When Sam fell into the pit in Swan Song, it wasn't just that he was dead, it was that he was trapped in the cage with Lucifer and there was no way to bring him back. When Dean died here, the only suspense was, "Well, how are they going to bring him back?" We've been Mystery Spot-ed enough times now that it's only a matter of waiting for "Heat of the Moment" to start playing again.
23rd-May-2014 07:59 am (UTC)
For me, so much of this ep was anti-climactic because they've done it before.

Yes, at the heart my problem with this episode is that it lacked that impact. And actually, the climax was the demon eyes. It's almost like they threw in a death scene because they wanted that high level of emotion - it wasn't the most important thing. I've seen many complaints that it was rushed - which makes sense looking back at it because the death was only a way to get to the final scene.

I dunno. I think I was really hoping that the "twist" that had been mentioned was really going to be a proper twist. No idea why I thought I could get my hopes up about that.
21st-May-2014 03:28 pm (UTC)
I honestly have to say that I thought this finale basically lived up to this season. It was pretty "meh" to me. That said, I did like the brother moments. It did feel kinda flat to me though, and I don't know if it's because I read all the spoilers that the boys slipped in at Upfronts (Jensen mentioning Jared crying on his shoulder, the whole "eye opener" teaser, etc.). But it wasn't anything I wasn't really expecting, I guess. I did gasp when Metatron stabbed Dean, but that was about it. And I really felt for Sam at the end when he carried Dean back, was staring at him on the bed and was sitting in the dark, drinking.

I couldn't wait for Metatron to shut up, and I honestly wish they'd killed him but they just stuck him in jail (and I wouldn't doubt they'd cook up something to have him escape).

Even though I've become pretty disenchanted with the show this season, I will keep watching because I'm still pretty invested in it. I'm not ready to say goodbye to the boys yet, definitely. I'll just be a little more emotionally detached as I watch and keep my expectations really low.
23rd-May-2014 08:03 am (UTC)

Yeah - a *meh* finale to match much of the *meh* this season.

I gasped at the stabbing as well. I wasn't prepared for Metatron to be the one to do the stabbing. I DID hope then that it was going to be Sam, but alas. That didn't happen either.

Such a shame he's still alive. No doubt he'll escape and we'll have to hear more of his waffle.

I'll keep watching too. Well, definitely the first few episodes. I am keen to see which direction they head in. Maybe we'll also see from more from Sam next season. We can but hope.
21st-May-2014 04:14 pm (UTC)
Metatron has to be the most annoying character ever on a show.

I just couldn't take much more of him at all. And to think he's not even dead and the angels are all still go for season ten, except for Gadreel, the only one who was in any way interesting, and who could have given us a new twist on an angel story.

For me the episode was mediocre, the worst SPN finale ever. I didn't particularly like the season eight finale for other reasons, but the brother moment back then was very moving and convincing; however this one wasn't.

It seemed exactly what it was, a basically meaningless scene thrown in to placate those 'stupid brother fans' amongst which I proudly count myself.

Then after all the angsting, all the 'I wouldn't bring you back to life Dean' stuff that Sam was forced to say all season, he says he lied, and we see him going to summon Crowley, but we were cheated there too as we will never know WHAT Sammy was going to do, for Crowley was given Sam's POV over Dean's dead body.

Poor Sammy, he's been cheated out of everything since Carver took over.

I really can't say how little estime I have for a showrunner who can't appreciate the gift he has in hand of two charismatic actors who give their best when acting with each other, something Carver seems not to want them to do.
22nd-May-2014 06:05 am (UTC)
"Metatron has to be the most annoying character ever on a show."

Totally agree. Not at all interesting, just an annoying, whiny b*tch.
21st-May-2014 04:14 pm (UTC)
The bad - It was utterly predictable, there were no shocks, twists or surprises. It was a bad,lazy rehashing of AHBL and they didn't even give us the courtesy of allowing Sam to have the grief monologue, instead we get a monologue from Crowley of all people. Gadreel was redeemed and did nothing to earn it. Cas was made the hero and Sam was robbed of any and all heroic moments. The writing was pretty piss poor yet again, as it has been for the majority of the season. The Cas and Dean tablet moment was cringe inducing.

The good - This is the beginning of what could be an incredible story arc if the writers get their heads out of their arses and do it properly. We have Dean finally turned completely into something he spent his entire life killing. There is finally an opportunity for Jensen to have a storyline that is not going around in an ever constant circle; Jared has had numerous challenges as an actor and Jensen has been playing a devolving parody of late. There is no way season 10 can be anything but Sam's POV because they can't give us the narrative through a demonic Dean (I've waited 9 years for Sam's POV). If it becomes Cas's POV I will never watch another episode.

I'm really excited by the possibilities that have opened up in the story. I'm probably being stupidly naive in thinking they'll actually do something good with it but I'm hopeful for some weird reason. I'm hoping that we will finally have the show circle back around and unite the brothers once and for all, especially if it has them both dying in a blaze of glory and ending up in heaven together. The entire show has been about Sam being tainted and Dean being Heaven's chosen hero, they've turned that on its ear and it could be fabulous.

But there will be no second chances after this. If they screw up the first few episodes then I'm done. If they take away more of Sam's voice and importance, then Carver can shove it where the sun don't shine.
23rd-May-2014 12:24 pm (UTC)
Hi hun!

The bad = tick!

The good = I agree that, once again, they've given themselves a potentially incredible story arc but I have learned to not hope for too much. It would be awesome if Sam could now carry the pov because Dean will be an unreliable narrator, but I'm not sure they will take that chance. I sincerely hope they do though. I will be surprised (and majorly pissed off) if it becomes Cas's pov. Also, I figure they will still have to hunt monsters and keep the MoTW formula. Maybe Cas will take on more of a leading role, but...*shrugs*...I don't know. I really don't want to think too hard about that.

I have no doubt that the brothers will eventually be fully united and back to how they were. Above all, I actually do believe that TPTB know the core of this show and what makes it so popular. Even though the brothers have been at terrible odds, I'd like to think that the focus has been on their relationship so they can reach a good place. I don;t like the way it's been done, but I suppose it's better than it not being about their relationship at all.

It'll be the first few episodes that will tell us a lot about the direction they will take. I honestly can't even imagine how they will handle this. Other than Dean "pretending" not to be a demon and Sam has to somehow work it out (much like soulless!Sam). If Carver is mirroring the early seasons then Dean will be "lost" for a few episodes. Either that or he's the big bad from the get go. Man, no idea how that will play out. Looking forward to Jensen playing evil though.
21st-May-2014 04:18 pm (UTC)
Though I'm thinking until Carver leaves I'll never see the Sam and Dean I grew to love. - And that's exactly why I didn't even bother with S9 to begin with. I'm sorry to see you in that spot now, I know how much that sucks. /hugs
23rd-May-2014 12:26 pm (UTC)
Suck so much. I just wish I had the strength to leave it alone. I feel like a gambler. I keep going back because I'm waiting for the win. I want to see it fully resolved - but it could take a lot of time.

Dean might be interesting next season though. Not sure what direction they'll take with him as a demon, but might be interesting.
21st-May-2014 04:31 pm (UTC)
I've been watching from across the room for a while, now. There's a thread of loyalty I've been unable to break, but the investment just isn't there. I'm glad the guys have jobs? I'm glad their production family are all working, and that work is good for all of them? I suppose that's something to be happy about.

I know we're supposed to hate the villain, but ever since Metatron tumbled onscreen like a pillbug and started talking, well. Do you remember that scene in Raiders when the guy in black showed off his expertise with the whip, challenging Indy to a duel, and Indy just sighed, pulled out his gun, and shot him dead? I got no time for this. Yes, Metatron, that.

I've loved Tamoh all season. Well, I love Tamoh anytime, but I thought he brought a touch of icy originality to the show--perhaps the only touch of originality in S9. And I loved his sacrifice scene--that was a surprise, and it touched me.

Nothing else was a surprise. I wasn't surprised that Sam didn't get a mourning monologue over Dean's body, though it made me a titch sad and resentful on his behalf that the monologue went to Crowley. The fact that Sheppard's a regular next year when Jim Beaver, who gave us, and the brothers, so much, never was given that status, has not escaped my cynical notice.

All my lack of emotional investment in the episode and the past two seasons is addressed by the succinct comment that the brothers are no longer the heroes of the show. It's the angel show, with added demons, and ancillary brothers. As long as someone at the network likes the show and can conform it to his tastes, it'll never be done. No peace, no laying down the burden. Time for a new finale theme, I've been saying for a while.
21st-May-2014 04:36 pm (UTC)
As I understand it, Jim Beaver was offered regular status a couple of times and turned it down because he preferred to be free to work on other shows. So that particular bit of bitterness I think isn't down to TPTB.
21st-May-2014 04:34 pm (UTC)
Well, let me put it in my perspective.

I'm hoping demon!Dean will put a new spin on a really old wagon because right now the angels vs demons shit is beyond done for and I sincerely hope to be rid of most of the angels come s10 (pipe dream)

However, everything else was extremely predictable all the way down to Dean not apologizing, Sam changing what he meant, and Metatron plot line going nowhere.

Sorry bb. I got emotional and thought that maybe meant something good but then I realized it was just Jared and Jensen doing what they do best.
22nd-May-2014 08:05 am (UTC)
Hi, sorry to jump in.

I've never really invested in Castiel and dislike the angel storyline. BUT do you know how much Misha's fans out there? and Destiel's fan out there. Those Fans has helped the show win the PCA too, has helped the ratings too. So, they have to give Cas a storyline of his own right? To keep him on the show.

I remember when it was only J2 and a gaggle of guest stars? Now, we have Misha's fans, Sheppard's fans, among J2 fans and they have to accommodate them. When I go on Youtube the cries for Castiel is deafening. But I have to be able to share to keep my fav show on air.

Dean not apologizing. I think even if Dean apologize for letting gadreel possess Sam will be moot if he didn't mean it and will do it again if Sam's life on the line next time. Even if he did really mean it and apologize to Sam, to me that's still not redeeming his mistake. In my believe, our sins will not evaporate with confession. If mistakes can be redeemed with confession only we don't need police, we don't need judges or jail. Dean has to pay and to me Dean becoming a demon is Dean paying for his mistakes.

Imagine when (and I mean when not if) Dean is cured. Imagine what he feels to be a creature he so despise all his life. Dean's one fear in DALDOM is becoming a demon. He even let Sam die (the scene at When the Levee Breaks S4) than becoming (in Dean's words) a monster. This is Dean's ultimate punishment and I think Sam gets his justice.

Edited at 2014-05-22 08:23 am (UTC)
21st-May-2014 04:59 pm (UTC)
I wished they'd cut back on the angel politics and the demon spa and all that stuff on the periphery (I'm ok with having it in there, but not as a storyline that's as important as Sam and Dean). Also, when Metatron started monologuing with Dean, I rolled my eyes, but when he monologued again with Castiel I was a bit angry. They could have cut a lot from the first one to show us more of that devastating death scene.

That's my main negative critique, I think. That here, especially here, Sam's POV was cut short. His brother just died in his arms. He lost everything. Forget that Cas might still die and that Gadreel is dead and that Metatron fled and all that. His brother just died. Bloody and painful and right in his arms. If that doesn't warrant a minute or two of how devastated Sam is, of finally giving me more of Sam's f-ing POV, I don't know what will. Nothing, probably.

Don't get me wrong, that shot in the library was beautiful and his barely held back tears were too, but it was like: now cry, now look at your dead brother, now drink, and cut. Way too short. And with angel stuff in between. *sigh*

But. Apart from the ranting bit above, I do have hopes for the next season. As soon as they brought Cain into show's mythology, I thought they might go for the ultimate sacrifice - one of them killing the other. And Dean's dying wish (literally) was to not become what the Mark was turning him into. So I hope that that means that Sam has his work cut out for him now, that he'll have to find a way to get the Mark off of Dean.

Since Cas still has the dwindling grace to deal with and all their other friends are gone (dead or otherwise), I hope that this time it'll finally be Sam who saves Dean. No angel, no other deus ex machina solution, just back to gritty footwork while Sam is still trying to come to terms with the fact that Dean is dead. (Human!Dean still is dead, right?)

I'm a bit scared of what show's endgame is, if as soon as the Mark is gone, Dean will be dead. For real this time. (And what a horrible thing would that be for Sam! Knowing that by saving him, he'll lose him all over again. But I don't think he'd hesitate because I do believe that he didn't just stupidly lash out at Dean, I think that given the chance, he would respect Dean's wishes. And Dean's second to last words were that he'd rather die than be consumed by the Mark so yeah, I think Sam would not leave Dean like this even if that means he'll lose him for good.)

Also, there are a few scenarios how rescuing Dean might play out, but as far as I can see, they all end with Sam dead, too. So if they give us a big arc that spans the next seasons and have that as their endgame, I think it would actually be a good way for them to go. Both at the same time, like they always wanted. (And like the Js always wanted, too.) And for something that's more than worth it, too.

However, I don't know whether it's possible to draw this out like that. I actually fear it's not. What would they do, have demon!Dean for several seasons (god, I hope not!) and no Sam&Dean at all? So. Huh. All the above are just stupid fannish hopes, I guess. But still! I refuse to give up hope. I'll be there until the end, wishing that it'll all make sense. (Other than this stream-of-consciousness comment. Sorry for that.)
21st-May-2014 08:12 pm (UTC)
Agreed on the good way to go out - but this would probably only happen if Season 10 is to be the last - otherwise I fear much fudging.
21st-May-2014 05:12 pm (UTC)
I was completely underwhelmed. I'm bored out of my skull by the angels. I did tear up a bit when Dean told Sam he was proud of them and died, but those tears dried up pretty fast because I felt the scene was... I don't know, too brief, maybe? It's like the writers knew we'd be expecting an emotional scene but had no clue how to actually write one, so they just wrote a token moment. It had no real depth, and yeah, I didn't feel like J2 delivered. Though what can they do when the writing's this bad.
23rd-May-2014 04:15 pm (UTC)
*nods* Underwhelmed was my first reaction for sure. A lot of...what the...?! and a few yawns through all the angel stuff. I've since accepted that it's what they have to do now as the js need more time off. I suppose after 9 years they need more of a rest (and with families etc).

I think we have just seen too many deaths. It's no longer about dying but what happens to them after they die. Which can be interesting for sure and I think demon!Dean will certainly challenge their writing team next season.
21st-May-2014 05:18 pm (UTC)
"Empty. Blank. Perhaps a bit annoyed, frustrated and sad."

That was my exact reaction too. Sigh. I find myself in the absurd position of actually being glad it's hiatus. Looking forward to not watching really puts this season in perspective - like it's something I was inflicting on myself. Way to go, Carver.

Here's what I can come up with as bright spots:

I think this episode might work better as a re-watch than it does as an initial viewing.

Maybe Dean is a Knight of Hell. That could be interesting. Maybe he'll end up rivaling Crowley to be King of Hell, i.e. take on the Abbadon role, which would explain why they took the actual Abbadon out for no apparent reason.

I thought Sam was particularly pretty to look at this week. I like his hair longer than it is right now, but even so, Jared is looking good.


ETA: Ooh, I just saw this request from riyku. This idea definitely qualifies as another bright spot:
"So who's gonna write me the one where Sam massively goes off the demon blood wagon and starts drinking his brother's blood?"

Edited at 2014-05-21 05:42 pm (UTC)
22nd-May-2014 08:34 am (UTC)
"So who's gonna write me the one where Sam massively goes off the demon blood wagon and starts drinking his brother's blood?"

I think someone has written that story. It's a BigBang story I think because I've read it. The setting is post S4 and instead of getting saved by Cas Dean fell through the cracks of Hell and into the domain of the fallen angels where he gets his power and becomes a demon of chaos. Sam drinks Dean's blood and keeps his power and Dean needs Sam to stay sane and be more like human. But he still loves his brother. Great fic!
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
This page was loaded Sep 24th 2017, 10:26 am GMT.