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9.23 reaction 
21st-May-2014 07:55 pm
Hot not plot!


I had a huge reaction post written out but decided it was far too negative and started to make me cry so I decided not to post it.

I will say that I didn't mind watching the episode (made all the better because I had zebra363 with me) but in all honesty it left me feeling pretty much nothing. Empty. Blank. Perhaps a bit annoyed, frustrated and sad.

I love these characters too much to see them wasted like this. To have them at odds all season just so we can have "near" apology scenes and confessions of "I lied". :(

For a whole season to mean absolutely nothing. To have gone absolutely no where. *sobs* (and not the good *sobs* - only S8 and S9 have reduced me to tears over loss of the show I fell in love with).

I need more time to process. I'm sure I will shake these blues away and find something salvageable here.

Though I'm thinking until Carver leaves I'll never see the Sam and Dean I grew to love.

I'd say they've already created their spin off. We watched it this season.

(PS: please, if you loved it and want to squee please feel free. I need to know it's worth hanging on to. I need to know that this is just all part of a plan to build this show back to something we recognise. I need to know that they didn't make Sam say important stuff only to have it completely and utterly ignored for a reason. I need to know that this hasn't just become the worst, predictable, most boring, fan servicing pile of... )
Comments 
21st-May-2014 12:05 pm (UTC)
I will tell you why you are feeling nothing -- the Winchesters are no longer the heroes in this story, and their position as such as been completely usurped.

Most egregiously, as has been done all this season, Sam didn't get to do anything effective last night besides the initial finding of the trailer park. Gadreel ("friend"... REALLY?) had his completely unearned redemption arc moment, allowing our hero Cas to be the one who REALLY saved the day, AND took down Metatron, using brains instead of brawn (a direct contrast to Dean, our former hero's, epic failure)

Sam got knocked out for the main fight. He didn't get to Dean on time. He didn't gank Metatron fast enough when he was back to an angel. He didn't manage to stop Dean before he died. And, most of all, he didn't even get to be the one to offer a deal, because Crowley came in and literally took his version of the ABHL II monologue. So even his "I lied" was for naught, because he didn't get the chance to prove it either way.

And honestly? And you know how much I adore J2 but...they just didn't sell it last night. Compare it to last year's finale in the church, which was infinitely more emotional and visceral and, frankly, better-acted and written, whether you agree with the content of that scene or not. And you know why? Because it was about the two of them, and their history, good or bad. Not just a rehash of better scenes. *salutes Carver*

Note: for the record, my boyfriend was watching it, so it was either hide in my room or watch and see what y'all were talking about today lol. I'm personally a resounding ball of meh.
21st-May-2014 12:12 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed it. It's been a long time since I actually felt something watching a SPN episode, and I think Jared and Jensen made great performances. Maybe because this season -and the one before that were so crappy,I'm biaised, but I think it was a great finale. :)
21st-May-2014 12:11 pm (UTC)
I'm with you my dear, I did enjoy the episode but not in the deep and committed way I have done in the past and that was because I think no matter WHAT they had done in one 45 minute slot there was no way to retrieve the rest of this wasted season. I've said elsewhere - this would/could have been awesome if they'd condensed the interesting parts of this season into 11-12 episodes and made this the mid season hiatus finale. Then we'd have had the 2nd half where Sam was trying to rescue/save Dean from the Blade and the demonic transformation in a way that wouldn't leave Dean as a rotting corpse...

I think you and I have gone through the same process of disillusionment this season. Sigh. It makes me very sad.

But I'll still watch next season. I can't leave now.
21st-May-2014 12:37 pm (UTC)
It's weird. I was on the edge of my seat watching it because I kept thinking it was going to go somewhere really interesting. And then there were these long Metatron talking scenes and angel scenes and predictable Sam getting knocked out so he can some and "save" Dean (only he didn't) scenes and then by the end the black eyes were the icing on the cake of - oh. They actually did go there. Just as everyone had predicted.

I will watch next season as well because I'm too invested. But I doubt I'll write reactions anymore. There's just nothing to say. Creating a whole season that essentially amounts to nothing for Sam and Dean means there's nothing left to write about. Sadly.
21st-May-2014 12:18 pm (UTC)
{{{{hugs}}}} of sympathy!

I don't care enough to watch it. I mostly blame fandom for my level of disengagement, though. The versus b.s. of this season was too much for me. It was too much for me in S4 (and 5) when the show was actually still mostly good. To go there when the show is flailing around aimlessly… no, thanks.
21st-May-2014 12:41 pm (UTC)
Thank you sweetie.

Show and some elements of fandom have been pretty horrid this season.

In some ways, I feel a weight lifted off my shoulders. It'll be easier not to care any more. Sad of course, but I will always love the characters I originally fell in love with. And hopefully continue to enjoy the fan works it produces.

And there were some nice SamnDean moments that I'm sure we'll see a million gifs of. Out of context I can enjoy them.
xx
21st-May-2014 12:39 pm (UTC)
This makes me sad,Ash.
I loved it.

I felt that this finale was all about the brothers.I really felt their connection and that they love each other..no matter what..

I agree that we didn't get much from Sam's point of view but when have we ever?

Certain moments will stay with me forever and i am looking forward to where Season 10 takes me..
21st-May-2014 12:52 pm (UTC)
It makes me sad too. Like, really. But I've reached this point a few times since Carver took over. I've almost run out of sadness now because it's been building all season.

And I agree - there were lots of lovely brother moments - it;s just because they didn't amount to anything in terms of their relationship (no new understandings, no new growth, no appreciating what's happened before) that even those couldn't salvage it for me. I loved seeing them, don;t get me wrong. But having a reveal that Sam "lied" is equivalent to Sam confessing he loves Dean. We know that and have known it since the first episode. Now, if they touched on why he "lied" it might have meant something. But that was never the point.

I agree that we didn't get much from Sam's point of view but when have we ever?

Yeah. And it's all just too much for me now. There's only so much of Sam the cardboard cutout that I can take. Not to take away from Jared - he's done remarkably well with very little.

I think when and if they actually mend this relationship I will be able to look back and see how this season fits into the overall relationship arc. In the mean time I'll be left with wondering what exactly Dean was proud of. How they kept failing this season? Or maybe how they keep fighting even though they don't stop to actually think about the consequence of their actions.

But yay hun! I'm so happy it worked or you. And in fact, I know it worked for so many and I am truly happy about that. And maybe in a couple of weeks I will be able to look back and enjoy what we did get much more. In fact, I'm sure I will. :))
21st-May-2014 12:40 pm (UTC)
Forgive the incoherent ramblings of an overworked, sleep deprived person ahead of time.

I don't know if it was because I read too much speculation about the finale beforehand but it just left me flat.

We can get a whole elaborate scene when the brothers are pissed off at each other or doing each other wrong. But when they're making up they can't say more than five words to each other before cutting each other off or we get "I lied." And some hugging and crying. That's just ridiculous.

And of course we talked about the fact that they aren't heroes anymore. They've lost their own mission.

I just don't think there's a solid direction anymore. I feel like the storyline is all over the place and there are so many loose threads that they've lost track of as writers. For example Abaddon was taking people souls and raising her own army for this battle. Now that she's dead, what is happening to that army she was raising. Did the writers just forget about that? Or was that just a nice plot device for that one episode? And that's just one example of so many missteps this season and it's a minor example of that.

I'm not someone who can do all dark, all angst. What I have loved about this show is that it always brought some lightness, some humor in the midst of a horror show, especially with moments between the boys. It has also lost that. I have to think hard about the last time it made me smile or laugh, especially with moments between the boys. And looking forward to next year, I have to wonder when, where and if those moments might come.

21st-May-2014 01:26 pm (UTC)
I just don't think there's a solid direction anymore. I feel like the storyline is all over the place and there are so many loose threads that they've lost track of as writers.

THIS! I mean, I get leaving some threads loose to pull later, but the sheer quantity of them in Carver's tenure? I could knit a sweater.
21st-May-2014 12:42 pm (UTC)
I feel like, I kept wishing for that one thing the show promised in the beginning of this season, and after one year's searching I finally realized the thing had been tramped on and deserted and forgotten long before, and the background noise of Metatron's laughing just won't stop. Yeah I still hear it now.
Actually I know Metatron has nothing to do with my depression. Or, maybe a little.
Maybe there's still one good thing: Demon Dean looks hot.

Edited at 2014-05-21 12:45 pm (UTC)
21st-May-2014 01:46 pm (UTC)
Yes. That. I had my hopes up too high. I just have to accept that.

Demon Dean should be crazy hot! And I wonder if he'll keep it a secret from Sam for a while. Though Sam will be puzzled about him suddenly being alive so...hmm..

(I am NOT going to speculate about what they'll do with next season. I am going to go in with NO HOPES AT ALL!).

xx
21st-May-2014 12:54 pm (UTC)
I'm torn on it. On the one hand I have this terrible, fragile hope that maybe it'll get better next season, but on the other hand I feel like I've been hoping for that for a long time and not getting it. But I'll be back, I know I will.

There were moments and elements that I liked. I liked that some attempt was made at a rapprochement - not that it was a good one but I feel like starting off next season with an assurance that Sam won't give up on Dean combined with the demon eyes is a better place than some ways it could have gone.

On the actual episode front - acting wise, I really felt that nobody brought it at all. It's kind of sad that the one person I wanted to see more of was the redheaded angel denouncing Metatron. As for the structure it was dire. So. Much. Talking. I livestreamed it with a friend who doesn't watch SPN at all and only knows it through me and she was puzzled at the sheer quantity of Metatron and how boring he was, which pretty much says it all.

I think there are salvageable things there, and that they'll be more apparent on a rewatch. I also think there's a set up for a potentially much more interesting core-idea in s10. But I'm an eternal and irritating optimist.

Edited at 2014-05-21 12:54 pm (UTC)
21st-May-2014 01:29 pm (UTC)
But I'm an eternal and irritating optimist.

Me too, punkin, ME TOO.
(Deleted comment)
21st-May-2014 01:54 pm (UTC)
yay! That's great. I think if I hadn't been spoiled for the ending I might have been more shocked.

Still curious to see where they go with it. Demon!Dean might be veeerryyy interesting.
21st-May-2014 01:11 pm (UTC)
I've been watching this season with a different filter, because this is not the show of the first five seasons (obviously.) This year, especially, I've been trying to make sense of wtf Carver has been trying to do. Still dunno.

I used to want Kripke (and Edlund) to return to the show and see it out, but I don't know if they'd have it in their hearts. (Edlund has already declined fandom's kind invitation. ;)) Earlier this season, I was going through the heartbreak you are now, ash. The realization my old show is long gone. This new one is...something else. It's kinda like comparing my life before kids and my life after; it's still my life, but a whole different animal.

So I still enjoy the pretty and the genre, and I'll still be using the canon for fandom fodder, but I think Tebtosca hit the nail on the head: the Winchesters are not the heroes of the story anymore. But isn't that the way with heroes? Feet of clay and all.

J2 did a sturdy job, but I never quite bought Dean's addiction. Amber1960 had a great point in that this season should've been condensed by half, with the later eps focussing on Sam's quest for a cure. Then Jensen could've really amped up the grim urgency of the MoC. Carver's pacing was shit. (Who knows how much of this was network-dictated, though. I try to keep, in the back of my mind, the reminder that TV shows have multiple demands placed on them, the least of which is fandom expectations.)

So...no, no surprises. I'm frankly relieved. I am looking forward to seeing what Crowley is up to, some delicious demon Dean, further Sam and Cas scenes, and hopefully, a return to Mystery Spot Sam. Hey, if Carver is into recycling, that's a tasty Sam to revisit...
21st-May-2014 02:06 pm (UTC)
This new one is...something else. It's kinda like comparing my life before kids and my life after; it's still my life, but a whole different animal.

I like this comparison. :) I haven't been one to complain about the difference too much because I've always felt like it was actually on track to somewhere. I mean, the show has to change and I totally accept that. What hurts is that I enjoy trying to see the connections and the threads. I like to see how the characters are developing and how an overall story arc works. But it feels like there's no point trying to connect the dots because they clearly don't join up. Nothing that Sam and Dean went through in the first half of the season meant anything to the last half. I wouldn't have minded that if the first half had been resolved - so I've been hanging on and hanging on. And it's only now that i can look back and see the whole season and think...what the hell was that all about?

But isn't that the way with heroes? Feet of clay and all.

Yes, I suppose so. And actually if the story was one about the nature of heroism then I could accept that. But I have a feeling it isn't. Or maybe I'm wrong - perhaps I'm just not seeing that at the moment.

I didn't buy the addiction either. I was pleasantly surprised when Dean started coughing up blood (twist!), but leaving the full on addiction so late in the season is puzzling - it would have been great to see that build up earlier.

Also - I wonder why Sam was never seen to be trying to work out how to get rid of the Mark. He seemed fine with him having it (maybe knowing he made a good weapon?). The Sam we know would have been doing all the research as soon as he knew Dean had it.

I am relieved as well I have to say. I'm also glad for the break. I am hoping to rekindle my love over the hiatus. And perhaps go into the next season not so invested. Or at least remember its a different animal. :)
21st-May-2014 01:16 pm (UTC)
My problem is more that it ISN'T giving us something different from the Sam and Dean we fell in love with. It felt like it was trying to give us ~feels~ that have been stale for a few seasons now, and bringing home the lesson that there can be no change or progress, ever, only recursion.

Maybe later I will be able to consider that grimly effective. Maybe "I'm proud of us," was meant to be empty. Maybe the story of Sam trying to define family as something other than the Winchester sacrificial model and failing miserably and falling back into the mold is moving. Maybe Dean still being the guy who 'protectively' nullifies Sam's choices by knocking him out is meant to be horrifying -- just because he's not saying it's a dictatorship doesn't mean it still isn't Dean making a decision for Sam and imposing it by force. But it feels sort of like the show went around thinking it might try some new and different flavors for sustenance and then decided fuck it and just ordered a pizza. A pizza that was cold and congealing by the time it arrived.

However, I'm not made of stone. Jared's messy crying still does things to me, no matter how exasperated I am with the context. And I think demon!Dean could have potential. At very least, I think it will be something Jensen can do more interesting things with than his frankly pretty awful crazed by bloodlust performances. He's an actor who is better at subtle.

I really enjoyed Gadreel. Why couldn't we throw out all the other minor characters and keep him, instead of being stuck with Metatron? Crowley I'm a bit bored of, but at least he still has interactive chemistry and his plot potential is less grandiose and more interesting.
21st-May-2014 01:34 pm (UTC)
I agree with every word of this. Even though I do tend to like cold pizza better than hot, IRL...
21st-May-2014 01:24 pm (UTC)
I think I agree with almost all the longer comments here... My positive reactions after the episode were:

I really like Jensen and Jared and want them to have job security and a work environment that gives them joy (I wish everyone had that!), and a crew that's been together mostly for 9 years gets to continue doing what they love with people they love - that's all good.

I don't have to avoid spoilers and interviews now. That's good.

And *maybe* we'll get more of Sam's POV in season 10?

But mostly - yeah. What you said. (I didn't even like Jared's hair!)
21st-May-2014 01:36 pm (UTC)
I have this vain hope Jared will grow his hair all summer, spend lots of time waterskiing so he gets tanned and sun-blonded, and then we'll pick-up S10 a few months in so he keeps it all. :)
21st-May-2014 01:25 pm (UTC)
Dean girl here. Didn't shed so much as a tear during Dean's climactic death scene. How much do you have to mess up a show to achieve THAT?

I enjoyed it somewhat more than you, but "love"? Nope, not at all. :(
21st-May-2014 08:04 pm (UTC)
Me too! And I WANTED to. But nope.
21st-May-2014 02:19 pm (UTC)
Sympathies. I was where you are four years ago. *hug* It gets easier when you are able to watch the show without caring so much. Or at least, it did for me. But I am looking forward to demon!Dean, because I would love to see whether there's a personality shift for Dean now, away from feeling responsible for Sam. Something to put them, finally, on equal footing - or make Sam's feelings about Dean change as well. It could be the healthiest thing that has ever happened to them, ironically.
22nd-May-2014 06:26 am (UTC)
[i]But I am looking forward to demon!Dean, because I would love to see whether there's a personality shift for Dean now, away from feeling responsible for Sam. Something to put them, finally, on equal footing - or make Sam's feelings about Dean change as well. [i/]

Is this the game changer that Carver said it to be? One thing I'm sure and never have a doubt about Dean's personality is that he loves Sam and always feels responsible for him. It's ingrained and like it's been coded into his DNA or something. Now that Dean is a demon, will that change? Or will Dean becomes a special demon because he's turned by the blade? Unlike average demons (including Crowley) who are turned in Hell (getting tortured and be a torturer). Can is able to fall in love.
21st-May-2014 02:37 pm (UTC)
I was left feeling like this was an okay episode but not finale worthy. Too much plot was too much pushed into the 45 minutes. We couldn't take in/grieve the loss of Dean with Sam- I mean AHBL was a two parter! So to cram it all in made me feel like we didn't get what we had been waiting for.

I started re-watching S4 when the comparison was made by fans and I can see some of it but then again it makes me ache for that show. I've started S5 and watched Abandon All Hope yesterday afternoon and cried over Ellen and Jo's deaths again, and hated watching Sam listening to Lucifer's plans for him, with all that emotion on Sam's face. I didn't cry when Dean died during the finale, it didn't hit me like the losses of previous seasons - probably because of the rush... we barely got the grieving of Sam over his brother. I would have loved a powers almost gone Castiel grieving with Sam or Sam begging Crowley to save Dean but... it didn't go there.

I liked the earlier comparison by Quickreaver to life before kids and after kids, I think that is true with this show. Different feels and I need to 'let it go' as the Frozen song says and enjoy the 'spinoff' for what it is.

I am looking forward to how they deal with Demon Dean. I have read some great fanfiction with Demon Dean trying to control Sam- an over extension of who Dean normally is... and those stories have been creepy good so...*fingers crossed*!

And the stuff they did give us last night should spawn some great fanfiction!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts all season, I may not have commented every time but you better believe I read them all and enjoyed your thoughts and your friends comments! :)
22nd-May-2014 01:58 pm (UTC)
We couldn't take in/grieve the loss of Dean with Sam- I mean AHBL was a two parter! So to cram it all in made me feel like we didn't get what we had been waiting for.

Yes! It felt like so much and yet strangely not enough.

I didn't cry when Dean died during the finale, it didn't hit me like the losses of previous seasons - probably because of the rush... we barely got the grieving of Sam over his brother.

That's because Sam's emotions don't really come into play. The end game was Dean turning into a demon so spending time over Sam's emotions wasn't important for them. Much like his emotions this season. Pretty much avoided.

I'm hoping to see some awesome fanfic too. I love controlling Dean in fanfic (kink!) but not so much in the actual show. we've seen a lot of controlling Dean lately and I'd love to see Sam re-claim some control. And importance in the overall writing of the show.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts all season, I may not have commented every time but you better believe I read them all and enjoyed your thoughts and your friends comments! :)

My pleasure! I have enjoyed it chatting with everyone. There's always such interesting comments made. :))
21st-May-2014 02:42 pm (UTC)
I got nothing...

I'm thinking until Carver leaves I'll never see the Sam and Dean I grew to love.

This! *sigh*

I thought my newly adopted, changed attitude on how to watch the show would carry me through the finale. It didn't. There is just too much that doesn't make sense. To name one little moment that, for some reason, was the last straw that broke the camel's back: When Metatron was called out as a fraud, this angel said: He is a fraud. Not a miracle worker but an angel! - He said that to the crowd of normal people who would love to have an angel from heaven with them doing miracles. But it was acted out as if had announced a demon and people would gasp and feel threatened. That just doesn't make one bit of sense. I know this was just a little thing that could easily be handwaved. But for me it stands for all the incoherency going on, thrown at us, hard and fast. (Unless Metatron is talking.. and talking.. lol).
I'm not feeling much, you know. Just a faint sadness, because there is no denying for me anymore where I stand with this show.

A thought on the side: I noticed that some recent shows like DaVinci's demons (and some others that don't come to mind) have a rather incoherent storyline/character developements. It's all about the sensation spectactle. (Not sure I'm wording this properly). I'm wondering if this is the "new way" of telling TV stories. I know there was a comment like that before suggesting something similar.

I chose the Bobby icon to hide in the good old days. Makes me feel better. ;)





Edited at 2014-05-21 03:26 pm (UTC)
22nd-May-2014 02:10 pm (UTC)
Hey honey.

Excellent point about Metatron. In fact, that whole scene really really annoyed me. I wrote about it in my review that I didn't post. It also makes no sense that all those homeless people would turn into murders. How did they get to be a bunch of people kicking and hurting that guy? It was such a disturbing scene - for no reason. It did show that humans were as much "sheep" as the angels were that decided not to follow Cas. Maybe there's a comment/theme here but I'm not counting on it. I'm tired of trying to make sense of it all.

Also - I couldn't believe that Sam referred to Gareel as one of their "real friends". That just made absolutely no sense. Since when? I can accept Sam realised that Gadreel can help them and accept him, but to consider him a friend like Cas just made me...O_O.

And yes, a comment was made on the last post about incoherent story telling being the new norm. I'd like to think that was a thing, but to be honest I think it's just missing the mark. They have so much lore now with angels and demons they keep losing the threads.

I DID like Castiel's "I just want to be an angel". There was something very plaintiff and honest about that. Of all the characters I think Cas and Gadreel had the best character arcs. Sam and Dean were just the side show. Used cheaply to make us feel stuff.

It makes me sad to think like that, but this season has been tough going.
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