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curled around these images
just enough to make us dangerous
10.03 reaction/review 
22nd-Oct-2014 10:18 pm
Ain't heavy
I will not deny that my response to this episode is clouded by my expectations. I honestly went in dreading it, getting prepared to pack it all in and eating a block of chocolate to commiserate.

Instead I was left with such an overwhelming sense of relief (to the point of giddiness) that I've come away thinking it wasn't all that bad.



This was always going to be one of those episodes that would divide fans. It's the ultimate confrontation between demon!Dean and Sam. It was going to reveal what lengths Sam went to to find Dean and show us whether Sam would be successful (this time), in saving Dean. It was going to show us just how "bad" demon!Dean was and what role Cas would play in him becoming human again.

It was a big ask and I suspect many may feel let down by it. Dean was cured and Sam left the building.

But I found it engaging and didn't find myself as bothered by some of the things I'm sensing others have been bothered by.


Let's start at the end shall we? After many many months of Sam looking for Dean, being confronted by Dean, being verbally abused by Dean Sam finally captures him and cures him. He weathered the storm. We were hanging on for that final scene to be between him and Dean yeah? A moment that would let us know the state of their relationship now. Instead, Sam leaves to get food and asks Cas to watch over him.

For some reason (and maybe this will change), I was really ok with this. In fact, can I say I liked it?

Here's why. After everything that Sam had been through in finding and curing Dean that man needed some air. I know that sounds trivial, but boy. He has a lot to digest and to be able to go out and get his, now normal brother normal food has to be the best thing he could have done. There was NO WAY they were going to talk. I had absolutely NO expectations that they would. Sam's perfectly relieved face when Dean came back and his desire to feed his brother was just enough for me.

One big reason for this is how strongly it links to the past "resurrections". Instead of writing about it here - I made a tumblr post about it. I know we didn't get to have the scene of them eating-but the connection was there. It was also significant that we know that there's probably no way they could sit and share food together at the moment. Things are still raw, but Sam wanted to comfort and heal Dean and (for now) that's enough for me.

The was a full on SamnDean episode and so I wasn't surprised (or even disappointed) that we didn't get a bro scene at the end. Sure, I would have LOVED a hug - but it just didn't feel right. Sam's face spoke volumes though.

I even didn't mind Sam asking Cas to watch over him. It's been a long time since I've actually felt the genuine friendship between Sam and Cas and even between Cas and Dean. Finally, there's a sense of them all being on the same page.

I won't deny I was dreading that it would be something that Cas does that finally cures Dean, so I was relieved (relieved I tells ya!) that Cas actually helped Sam and not performed some "miracle" that cured him. I liked the team work.

I like Cas and Hannan ok? I just can't help it. Hannah is growing on me (shame, as I'm sure she'll die) and I can't deny I'd love to see them become an item (just 'cause).


I loved Sam in the episode (I know! shock eh?). He was so stoic under fire. He could have lashed out and did the same thing that Dean did to soulless!Sam and beat the crap out of him, but he didn't. He held back his hurt and anger and merely jabbed that needle in a little harder than was maybe necessary. He wasn't overly emotional and he didn't get hung up on guilt (at the moment) and let it all cloud his task at hand. He fought with his options and the knowledge that he might end up killing his brother. He trusted Cas and did what he thought was best for his brother.

And um..actually? I didn't think Dean's words were anything harsher than Dean has actually said to Sam before (like just before he went into confession in the church in 8.23). Or anything that Sam didn't already feel about himself. I didn't think anything out of Dean's mouth was a surprise - he's been hurt by much more ("if you leave, don't come back" in Levee Breaks). We know, deep down, that he thinks Dean thinks this stuff anyway (flashbacks in Levee Breaks, stuff that possessed!Dean said to him in S8), so I'm not surprised he took it as well as he did. Good for you Sam!


D!Dean was pretty scary, though I think the best performance was last week's. Which, is actually not a surprise. Jensen had 2 episodes under his belt by then. It was still pretty good and I am very sorry to see him go. Jensen clearly loved playing him and I hope that maybe they'll treat us with some flashbacks later (though, I suspect Jensen had is hair cut so maybe not…). I at least hope we get a "lighter" Dean and maybe new Dean channels demon!Dean every now and then because - hot damn! he was great (*guh* him constantly referring to Sam as "Sammy"..creepy…). And the difference when real Dean returned was so very noticeable. Credit to Jensen. I'm sure Dean's arc, or story, isn't over yet. The mark is still there and no doubt he'll have to reconcile his demon side at some point.

Loved the red lighting during the bunker chase.

Talks of them killing each other. Dean actually trying to kill Sam and Sam worrying about having to kill Dean. The only other time this has come up (as far as I can remember) is when Dean worried that detoxing Sam could kill him. The "killing your brother" might be revisited with the Mark still in play.

I was also surprised how much I enjoyed Crowley! (See, I WAS riding high by my relief!!) I loved him reminiscing about Dean and his minions trying to be like him. I think because I much prefer this "charming" Crowley to shouting, boring (sorry!) Crowley. I have no idea what his plan is for Dean (with the Mark), but it can't be good (I hope!). I do think he genuinely likes Dean though.


I know there were quite a few weaknesses (like, why doesn't Hannah actually act like an angel? She was hurt and didn't cure herself immediately (looked like a broken rib maybe?). Also… is Sam luring an innocent man (who he was planning to stop from making a deal anyway) as monstrous as Dean actually killing him? Or even all that problematic? I mean, Sam and Dean have killed innocent people many times. All those meat suits. And worse, have actually given an innocent person to another person (Mrs Tran) to kill. Is it as bad as non consensual possession? Killing a person to drink their demon blood? I don't know about you but it seems a bit try hard to me (for which I am damn relieved I have to tell you! I didn't want Sam actually doing something that was totally OOC).

That pie in Dean's room would have mould on it, for sure.

An angel "hug" (more like a circle of arms) can hold down a demon? Since..when?

"Hell" always looks disappointing when they show it. I like it when it doesn't look like some traditional idea of Hell (like the long lines of waiting people from that past ep…).

Boo, Sam didn't use his own blood to cure Dean (though, makes a heap of sense that he didn't really).

The pacing might have lacked a little and it did feel anticlimactic. Demon!Dean seems to have been cured far too easily (and quickly!). But I was good with it ending where it did. It felt like we could now get into some good ole MoTW stories, sans angels and demons for a while. I really want that! I want to see Sam and Dean, on the road, hunting monsters. Sure, their relationship will no doubt be tense but it can't be ANYTHING like it was last season. Can it? Did this feel like "nothing" to anyone else? Dean was a demon so all that can be excused on that (even if it comes out that some of it's the truth. It wasn't nearly as confrontational as the stuff they made Sam say to Dean in S9). Sam was determined and dedicated to the cause (and we even got POV and family pictures and pie!), he cured Dean, looked massively relieved, went an bought him comfort food for his soul and came out of the whole thing with little more than leading douche Lester into a trap. No doubt, there'll be deeper discussions about all that, but at the moment I'm just damn happy to not be weeping over my show.


I am interested to see what the discussion will be between them about "who's the bigger monster". It's a non starter as far as I can see. I still hope it becomes a discussion about what they do for each other, but at the moment I'm just happy that we got through this as relatively unscathed as we did.

(I did mention relieved didn't I?)


POLL (for some reason was screwing up positing it here).
Comments 
22nd-Oct-2014 02:26 pm (UTC)
You know how I feel, so I'll just say this show is terrible and I'm ready for the Green Cooler scene next week lol
22nd-Oct-2014 02:31 pm (UTC)
I do hun! As much as I was ok with the ending I will be disappointed if we don't have a "special" scene at the beginning of the next one.

and YAAAY! Green cooler scene! I can't wait.

And seriously - MoTW eps with just the boys is pretty much all I need from my show. I don't want all that stupid angst like last season. So far, this feels nothing like that (and yeah, I know, it can change). Was it just 'cause Sam went sky diving that you hated it? Or just…everything…? (you don't have to answer that - just curious…)
22nd-Oct-2014 02:30 pm (UTC)
I don't have much comment on this one, except that my favorite part of the whole thing was Sam planning to go get Dean food and then get drunk. That seemed a highly appropriate response, to me.

Jensen's acting was really good. Best thing I can say about it.
22nd-Oct-2014 02:34 pm (UTC)
Yep! Sam NEEDED that! So much. I felt like he just needed to collapse in a heap and not resurface for ages. All that work to cure Dean - only to be abused liked that. But hey, he's strong and he knew what he was up against. He did good I think.

Jensen has knocked it out of the park this season. I'm so glad he had this opportunity. I'll miss him! He was a joy to watch.
22nd-Oct-2014 02:44 pm (UTC)
Agreed 100% with this post. Of course, I'm disappointed that the demon!Dean issue seems -- emphasis on seems -- to have come to an end, but we've still got the Mark to deal with, so it ain't over yet. Also agreed that what Sam did is not "monster"-worthy, and what Dean said isn't all that far from things he's said in the past. I liked 10.3 a great deal. :)
22nd-Oct-2014 03:13 pm (UTC)
Yeah - so sad to see the back of demon!Dean. He was so awesome! I think I could become a D!Dean!gal…:D (I love purgatory!Dean too…). Lets hope there's more to come somehow (the mark was making Dean pretty dark before AND he'll be itching to kill maybe...
22nd-Oct-2014 03:04 pm (UTC)
Jensen is beautiful. Still miss Edlund's writing, especially when it comes to torturing demons.
22nd-Oct-2014 03:15 pm (UTC)
Oh, great screen cap! He IS beautiful indeed. (and I've been watching Hell on Wheels and "Alistair" is in it and he's MARVELLOUS!).

Ooh, On the Head of a Pin. What an amazing episode. Now there's a dark and scary Dean (which d!dean never really was. I mean, he was darkish but because of all the charm didn't seem quite as dark as the Dean in that ep.
22nd-Oct-2014 03:11 pm (UTC)
I am going with the majority who feel that somewhere deep down the demon is still within. Dean cannot live without being a demon really. Sam will say nearly patched Dean up but I think since he is wearing the mark of cain and notice how Cas told Dean he didn't need to hunt right away. Start hunting and he will start needing to feed the mark. And still think giving crowley the blade dumbest thing in the world because him and dean are connected by the blade. Sam should have found a way to hide the dang thing. So i don't think Demon Dean is gone just dorment he needs to keep Dean alive only way mark can stay on him if he can figure out a way like Cain did to live without the blade. But since Dean hunts the mark will need to be fed eventually and that is just my opinion. Cain is a demon after all Dean will get sick again if he does not feed the beast on his arm. So a part of him is a demon then he can have the mark not effect him. And he was knight of hell i would think he could figure out how to manipulate his powers when he is a demon or not. Just because we didn't see black eyes don't mean they are not hiding within. JMO
23rd-Oct-2014 12:58 pm (UTC)
Ooh, interesting theory. I like the idea that Dean could get sick if the mark isn't feed. I think the "demon" is gone, but the power of the mark remains so it will be interesting to see what happens with that. Crowley clearly has some ideas and I really hope it's about an overall plan - that will lead to an interesting finale this year.

Thanks for your thinky thoughts on this. :)
22nd-Oct-2014 03:21 pm (UTC)
Yay, you did feel more positive about this one than I did, that's good. Though reading your review has reminded me of something else that jarred me too - how did that Adina angel get the better of Hannah so damned easily, and yes, why didn't Hannah heal herself immediately? Show - please let's have some more consistency!

But I had no issue with Sam and Dean - the dialogue felt a bit stilted to me but the content wasn't anything I didn't expect and, like you, I wasn't unhappy with the fact Sam went off to get food. That felt right.

Edited at 2014-10-22 03:23 pm (UTC)
22nd-Oct-2014 03:33 pm (UTC)
I did and I am actually really happy I did. Can't say I "loved" it - but I'm just so damn glad they didn't do things I thought they would that that seems to be enough for me (at the moment!).

And yep! I mentioned Hannah not healing herself straight away - makes no sense! they keep changing the rules on us! And that angels can hold a demon to control him.

As I said to tebtosca above, I'm surprised they gave Jensen this one. He had such a lot to do on screen - big stuff too. This performance didn't feel as tight as, say last weeks. You could see him trying to come to grips with it a bit. Still, credit to him. He's owned Demon!Dean. I've loved it!

22nd-Oct-2014 03:27 pm (UTC)
I really, REALLY liked this episode, and yeah, when I see these writers my heart always sinks a bit. Like when Benitez would get called up to close Mets games even though he almost always fucked it up. I think part of my enjoyment is due to me keeping myself as spoiler-free as I could, for a change. Of course it was impossible to avoid the cat-and-mouse scene in spoilers, but otherwise I managed.

Regarding the big bro hug scene that wasn't there: Dean said some pretty nasty shit to Sam, shit that's gotta sting even worse than what Dean said at the church because, their MOM. I thought it was interesting, too, that Dean referred to Mary as his mother, not theirs. There's plenty of canon to support the strength of Dean's feelings about Mary, and I'm sure that omitting Sam in that relationship was deliberate.

So I'm figuring Sam really did need a bit of a break, but also, they must have had *some* time together for Sam to know that Dean was hungry. I was pretty touched that he went out to get his brother food, personally.

Speaking of unangelic behavior, I know the RL reasons why Cas couldn't just heal Sam, but he might have offered. Cas: Sam, let me heal your shoulder. Sam: It's almost all healed, save your grace.

I don't know what to make of the fact that ultimately it was Crowley who saved the day.

And, what is it with this show and redheads?!

23rd-Oct-2014 01:44 pm (UTC)
hey,

Like when Benitez would get called up to close Mets games even though he almost always fucked it up

Even though I have no idea what that reference means I actually know what you mean! :)

(pauses to look at your icon and agree whole heartedly)

There's plenty of canon to support the strength of Dean's feelings about Mary, and I'm sure that omitting Sam in that relationship was deliberate.

Yeah, that was painful. I want to kick D!Dean though because Mary sold Sam to the YED. It was totally her fault she died really (that's probably controversial). I've never felt that Dean really thought Mary dying was Sam's fault. In this I felt it was about Dean knowing that Sam feels like it was his fault. Hit him right where it hurts.

they must have had *some* time together for Sam to know that Dean was hungry. I was pretty touched that he went out to get his brother food, personally.

They must have had time together. It was probably quite awkward, but Sam would have known what Dean needed. And I love that he went to get him food.

I accept that Cas couldn't have fixed Sam's shoulder before - but what about now? First thing he could have done…

I don't know what to make of the fact that ultimately it was Crowley who saved the day.

Yeah, he did the "big" save. Dean now has an angel and a demon save him from the dead. Sam has too (faith and probably Mystery Spot…).

redheads! After Abaddon I don't even know! Probably regretting they got rid of her…

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
22nd-Oct-2014 03:28 pm (UTC)
*raises hand and waves* I enjoyed the episode!! :D
And am glad I'm hearing a "relieved" from you! :)

D!Dean going with a Hammer after his brother is horror enough for me to be glad the demon side is gone now. And Sam showed so much emotional strength by going through with it all to cure him. He was the true grown up in this episode. To me, anyway.

An angel "hug" (more like a circle of arms) can hold down a demon?

When Cas put his arms around D!Dean to hold him, I thought that was possible because D!Dean wasn't 100% demon by then anymore, from the so far treatment.

I do like the idea of Hanna being affected by human emotions and Cas seeing it, and making an effort to set clear boundaries (so far ;) ).

xox

23rd-Oct-2014 02:00 pm (UTC)
I'm glad it's the relieved me too! I was getting myself prepared for a major rant as a review and I'm glad it didn't turn out that way!

I was spoiled for that hammer scene so it didn't have the impact it would have had if I didn't know it was coming. still, it was pretty full on and no doubt Dean will have to reconcile trying to kill Sam. …*whaaaa*

When Cas put his arms around D!Dean to hold him, I thought that was possible because D!Dean wasn't 100% demon by then anymore, from the so far treatment.

Ah yes! That will be it! (which, actually makes it worse that he still tried to kill Sam when he wasn't 100% demon. I really don't want to think too hard on that….*cries*)

I enjoyed the ep much for than I thought I would, so..YAY! This damn show…
xx
22nd-Oct-2014 04:12 pm (UTC)
I skimmed everyone else's comments, and I'm not sure I have a whole lot to add! I thought last week's episode was the best of the demon!Dean triptych, for the very reasons Tebtosca pointed out. They could've used a fourth ep, to flesh things out. I wanted to see more of Dean's wickedness and Sam's descent into supposed immorality. Stretch the three into four. I absolutely think they could've done that and not lost their audience.

I'm still bored to bits by the angel and demon threads, but the brother thread keeps me hanging in there.

My favorite part was probably Sam saying "And then I'm gonna get drunk" and Dean's face at the end. He looked...simply sad. Sad because he's lost the carefree, hedonistic couple of months he just enjoyed and now he has the weight of the world back on his shoulders, sad because he treated Sam like shit, just...sad. Beautifully nuanced by Jensen. We'll probably get a chunk of Dean self-pity for a while, but I'm hoping that will spur some actual conversation between the boys. Just a smidge, because God knows it would feel OOC if they actually, yanno, talk talked.

It was an okay episode! I suspect I'll like it better upon a rewatch, but given who wrote it, I was surprisingly pleased.
23rd-Oct-2014 02:38 pm (UTC)
I agree, last week's was the best (by far). A forth episode would have been great. I would like to have seen Dean really really close to the edge of actual darkness. There were hints, but he never really went "bad" - didn't do anything that normal Dean on steroids wouldn't do (well, other than verbally abuse Sam to that degree…). As for Sam 's descent into immorality…on the one hand I am so glad they didn't do that because he would have NEVER been able to come back from it (Sam just has to say boo to Dean and he's "evil"), but on the other hand it means they've got nothing to explore the theme of "how far is too far" to save each other. What he did wasn't even close to what Dean did to save him so..I don't know. I have no idea what they are doing there.

I'm still bored to bits by the angel and demon threads, but the brother thread keeps me hanging in there.

Yeah, it's the way it just is these days. Good to know there's heaps of only SamnDean eps to come…:)

My favorite part was probably Sam saying "And then I'm gonna get drunk" and Dean's face at the end.

So good. I really felt for Sam needing drink and poor Dean too. He's been through so much. He's felt what it's like to not care and now he's back to a life he probably does;t really want. Of all the things he said, I think the "babysitting" one hit closest to home.

I'm looking forward to a re-watch, now that I know what happens. ;)


22nd-Oct-2014 04:16 pm (UTC)
I was really worried. I didn't even look to see who wrote it but in light of how that went, it turned out way better than I would have expected. I admit I skipped the scene with Sam and the crossroads demon. As for who is the bigger monster - oh for heaven's (anyone's) sake, have they watched the show? Both of these guys have a list of monstrous acts that goes on and on. Sam felt guilty and demon!Dean knew about it so why wouldn't he use that to his advantage. As for Lester, he didn't have to make the deal. He was 10 pounds of bad karma in a 5 pound bag. Don't mess with hell if you don't want to get roasted.

I think the more interesting question is how much is Sam curing Dean like Dean putting Sam's soul back. Demon!Dean didn't want to be cured. I'm not making a judgement on it, I just think it's a more interesting question than who is the bigger monster.

I'm glad we were spared the over-the-car-heart-felt discussion between Sam and Dean. I'm not ready for them to hug this out. It has been too nasty for too long for this to be wrapped up in a 5 second scene. I think Cas was able to restrain Dean because Dean was using mostly human strength at that point.

Why didn't Hannah just teleport? I really don't get angel rules for earthbound behavior. She's acting way too human other than her stilted way of talking. Why doesn't she just grab Cas and teleport him? Is it because none of them have wings now since the fall? Anyhow, whatever….

The reason the pie had no mold is the same magic reason there was no dust in the bunker after being sealed for 50 years. It's warded against everything: angels, demons, mold, dust, fungus, and bad 70s fashion. There's no mold in the showers either and all the food that had been in the fridge since 1958 was still edible when they opened it.

As far as Jensen directing, I think he pulled it off pretty well especially considering how much of the acting he had to carry and how much of the plot was spent running around in hallways that all looked the same. The red light was very cool and I liked Dean being preceded around the bend in the hallway by his hammer-bearing shadow.
24th-Oct-2014 10:44 am (UTC)
As for who is the bigger monster - oh for heaven's (anyone's) sake, have they watched the show? Both of these guys have a list of monstrous acts that goes on and on

I know! I appreciate that they might want to get them to explore the notion of what makes them a monster (but boy, hasn't Sam already explored that part of himself to death?), but so far this season neither of them has done anything remotely close to stuff they've done before. I'm not sure whether to be relieved about that or disappointed.

I think the more interesting question is how much is Sam curing Dean like Dean putting Sam's soul back.

It's something that's I've seen talked about and no doubt show is making that comparison. I think in both of these cases neither of them would actually want to live as these alternative versions of themselves. I very much like the notion though that without a soul (and I think we have to consider demon!Dean as soulless?) they are more content. They both liked not having that weight of guilt and responsibility. I think that's a really interesting discussion point. Is it better to suffer and remain compassionate or live a "better" life and be totally uncaring. I hope they explore that some more.

Believe it or not, I've seen discussion that Sam is horrible for forcing Dean back into a life of suffering (oh yes, Sam can be hated for anything it seems). I ignore that stuff, but find the whole notion of it interesting.

I'm glad we were spared the over-the-car-heart-felt discussion between Sam and Dean.

Oh me too! Even though I tweeted that I better see the biggest of all hugs after all this, I wasn't ready for it at the end of the episode. Far too raw. And as much as many didn't want Cas to fill that role of having the final scene with Dean, I actually think it worked really nicely. If we only consider Cas as Dean's friend (and wow, is it hard to get past all the destiel stuff whenever they share a scene), then it makes sense that Cas would be there for him. I also like that Cas was there for Sam (well, in the end…).

Why didn't Hannah just teleport?

Yep! No wings is my take on it. Broken in the fall. I saw that argument made somewhere and will go with that - although, I think it would have been nice if they reminded us of that. But at least they have stuck to canon (I think!) on that.

The reason the pie had no mold is the same magic reason there was no dust in the bunker after being sealed for 50 years. It's warded against everything: angels, demons, mold, dust, fungus, and bad 70s fashion. There's no mold in the showers either and all the food that had been in the fridge since 1958 was still edible when they opened it.

YES YES YES! Oooh, I actually like that. Joking or not! :D haha...

The red light was very cool and I liked Dean being preceded around the bend in the hallway by his hammer-bearing shadow.

Yeah, I think you'll have fun dissecting some of those scenes. They did look cool. And I have read you last post but haven't commented on it yet! I always want to find some "extra" time to do that and then it all gets sapped away. I always love looking at your discoveries. :)
22nd-Oct-2014 04:37 pm (UTC)
I think my own issue with this episode was that it seemed light on the Sam and Dean for an episode that was supposed to be about curing Demon!Dean. I wish the Angels would just get their own show already so it would stop interfering with my brotherly moments.

As for the deal making, anyone who has watched the entirety of the show knows Sam has done a lot worse.
22nd-Oct-2014 10:40 pm (UTC)
I'm pretty sure the angel show is mostly around so that Jared and Jensen can get some time off from the shooting schedule. I just wish there was an INTERESTING story to give them that time off, because I became angeled out seasons ago.
22nd-Oct-2014 05:01 pm (UTC)
my reactions were a lot like yours - relieved and not expecting this real emotional after-bit between the bros. These two are fairly understated with the chick flick moments - they save the drama for when they blow up at each other.

I think we'll get follow-up moments of the issues being worked out between them, that's what they do.

I agree with the stuff about Dean, too. In fact I didn't resent anything the man said - it was so straight-forward, cold and calculated, maybe embellished but Dean's truth is in there, too, but without all the emotional blackmail attached. Dean uses a lot of force and aggression and bullying with Sam when he's strongly disagreeing with what his brother is doing and I really really dislike it, even while I find it kind of relevant to the older brother/younger brother dynamic with a bad upbringing. It makes me dislike him. This calculated shit was actually rough but AWESOME. And yes, like you I believe he knows some of this stuff that Dean thinks about him, but he holds so much in, he never mentions it (the phone call he must STILL think Dean made at the cemetery with Ruby, the fact that he didn't let his bro. know of his feelings until he was nearly DEAD at the chapel, end of S8). Hoping some of that will come out eventually.
And I too was thinking, after all the teasers of how dark Sam went, that while in a way it WAS very dark, sort of a cold blooded plan leading this guy to basically be sacrificed for his brother, but at this point it is part of a logical progression and not OOC nor even all that shocking. Sam was on the edge of killing Bobby during Mystery Spot, he was cold and obsessed, and this as a buildup from that and to me it works, gets Sam back on course to the guy we knew him to be. It may not be admirable but I honestly identify with the humanity and failings of it much more than the crap like where Sam didn't look for Dean, where it seems OOC, so uncaring and we can't understand the motives behind that.

Tho I did love Jared's recent interview where he explained that so nicely - that Sam thinks he's such a curse that he protects himself to protect others, and that now he's starting to learn that the best he can do is *give* unstintingly to the people he loves, and that giving is something Sam can do very well. Can't wait to see if that pans out this season, I would love to see him move forward in his development while maintaining that lovely, unhealthy co-dependency with his brother.
24th-Oct-2014 11:04 am (UTC)
*nods* and *nods*

I agree with all that. I have a feeling we were supposed to be shocked by everything that happened in that episode - but we've been shocked by so much in the past that it really didn't measure up to that. I mean sure, it was rough stuff - but Dean saying that stuff to Sam felt no worse than, well, anything he's said in anger before. Though, I suspect that was all more about him that Sam (now I think that. I've changed my mind since writing my review). I think we are meant to believe that Dean actually feels some of that stuff toward Sam. Again, not surprising really. He probably does resent having to be the older brother at times. I know that it's nothing that Dean would ever say as "normal" Dean, but these days I think we are seeing more of a "bully" in Dean rather than a caring older brother. That could be borne out of resentment.

that Sam thinks he's such a curse that he protects himself to protect others, and that now he's starting to learn that the best he can do is *give* unstintingly to the people he loves, and that giving is something Sam can do very well.

Yeah, it's true. I read that too and I was worried when he said that Sam still needed to learn to give freely. I've always seen Sam like that anyway, but maybe it's part of the character I haven't really seen before. That he holds back because he's too scared to give because he might hurt others in doing so. Which, he has done before - tried to do the right thing, but got stung by it.

I seriously wish they had given Sam some tangible and believable motives for not looking for Dean in S8. It could have made a lot of sense for his character, but instead they decided to give us lots of soft focus romance and completely blew any great character development.
22nd-Oct-2014 07:41 pm (UTC)
other than that bad ending which i will ignore, it was great up until that point

Edited at 2014-10-22 07:46 pm (UTC)
24th-Oct-2014 10:53 am (UTC)
Yeah. Though I really liked the ending. For me it was too soon for a brother bonding moment. That's yet to come (which I now have to look forward to).
22nd-Oct-2014 09:12 pm (UTC)
Another episode that I enjoyed while watching but afterwards became very disappointed.

I get the guys need time off, but I just glaze over when the angels are talking, couldn't for the life of me tell you what was going on, how they got lost, how the other angel found them, why Hannah decided to stay all bloody. It's just like an annoying buzzing static, same with those hell scenes, tired of the corporate queues of demons who are wearing meat suits in hell?? WTF is that all about? **throws up hands** Don't think it really matters....

I'm thinking Crowley saved Cas to save Sam so Sam could save Dean who still has the Mark of Cain and Crowley has the Blade of Cain so still has ultimate control of Dean - yes? Crowley still wants Dean to rule Hell with him...some of this plot is kind of weird isn't it? Oh well.

The Sam and Dean stuff though was excellent, they both seem to be having a great time, although I'm not sure I should be seeing that, it doesn't really matter though, it made a great viewing experience. I expected the low blows from Dean, as a demon he's well aware of how to unbalance Sam, where to cut. Again, I presume as Crowley was the crossroads demon he's still very much in charge of deals and knew what Sam had done and made sure when he swapped Dean for the blade that Dean also knew what Sam had done. Pretty smart plan of Sam's I thought, can't see how it makes it anywhere near 'monsterous', both have done far worse, Castiel, the angel of the Lord has been slaughtering angels and their human hosts for years - but that's my touchy subject. I do have to wonder though about the timing, did Crowley prime Dean before he sent him out to kill? Did demon Dean deliberately kill the husband because his soul was forfeit by Sam's plan? Hmmmm

Anyway, mostly I was disappointed by how clean and tidy everything was? I expected more in the way of pain and agony, what can I say, I'm probably more monsterous than Dean, Sam and Crowley combined! Dean didn't look wrecked by the experience at all and apart from a few needle marks came away looking better than he's done for years - I think that was a huge missed opportunity, but as I said, I'm evil like that...and practically, I suppose make-up and illness takes time and energy no one seems to want to expend any longer.

As an episode of tv it was entertaining in and of itself, but I could have watched a whole episode of those two slicing and dicing at each other verbally and physically trashing the bunker and themselves, shame about those long advert breaks.
23rd-Oct-2014 03:16 pm (UTC)
"I suppose make-up and illness takes time and energy no one seems to want to expend any longer." and especially not when the actor is directing too and has even less time than usual... I'm guessing that is part of the reason. I was dissatisfied with Dean's lack of suffering too! LOL
22nd-Oct-2014 09:48 pm (UTC)
I'm so glad to hear you were relieved and not considering the alternative. Gosh, I love your episode reactions!

My favorite part of this episode was Dean stalking Sam. I was giddy during that scene, and his growling "Sammy" with a smirk, yes, delicious.

Jared is so awesome to watch. Sam's face tells everything he thinks and feels, and this episode was so full of perfect little tells.

As for "who's the bigger monster" I think Sam using Lester falls awfully short on the scale of being bad, which lets me still daydream that when the crossroads demon says eat me, and Sam gives that imperceptable nod, that yeah, he took a drink. (I know it won't happen, but it's my headcanon til I have to give it up. :P)
24th-Oct-2014 11:41 am (UTC)
I'm so glad to hear you were relieved and not considering the alternative.

Me too!

My favorite part of this episode was Dean stalking Sam.

oooh, me too! So creepy and good. I'm glad Sam was clever about it.

Jared's faaaceeeeee *hearts*

which lets me still daydream that when the crossroads demon says eat me, and Sam gives that imperceptable nod, that yeah, he took a drink.

haha! That would be kind of awesome! (sadly, I don't think Carver even remembers that Sam once drank blood. If using Lester was this huge "monstrous" act then they definitely having been watching...
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