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24th-Oct-2014 11:37 pm
Abaddon - delicious
I really have the urge to read fic where Sam returns with Dean's food, he gets drunk and then we get ALL the feels between the two of them. We're unlikely to get that in the show (especially the wincest-y version I imagine), so I think I need to read it! (if anyone has any recs OR wants to write one *hint* I'm just here waiting).

While I'm here I'd like to rec this great vid by emerging vidder justmep2: Does That Make Me Crazy. This is only her 7th vid and she's done a wonderful job. This is about Demon!Dean - I love the way she's tied in relevant moments from Dean's past ago highlight the demon story. The editing is snappy and the song is great for d!dean. Check it out!

I'd also like to rec this tumblr post. I wouldn't normally do this but I think this highlights just how passionate SPN fans are. Even though this is probably WAY off course (not least because there's no way the writers would have even considered John's blood type), I think just the fact that it's caused a stir and got people talking and thinking is fun enough. It's a shame some peeps have been rude about it (come on! it's just a theory!) - but that just seems the way it goes these days. Sadly.

If fact, I've seen a few interesting things about S10 floating around. The biggest discussion point seems to be why Sam didn't use his own blood to cure Dean. Lots of lovely theories - including the connection to the trials and his tainted blood. For me it just made sense that he wasn't having to drain himself of blood when having to deal with demon!Dean. It also highlighted Sam's compassion. He didn't want to harm Dean more than he needed too. Mostly it would be simply logistics. We'd be crying foul if Sam was running around without much blood.

There's other stuff - like Sam being a meanie and returning Dean to normal when he was having such a great, guilt free life (please), Dean finally saying the stuff to Sam that he's always been feeling deep down (might be some truth in that), that Cas was actually the one who saved Dean (and even with my most open mind I can't buy that. He saved Sam for sure. He restrained Dean so Sam could finish the cure. Team work at the end). I also believe Dean's "thank you" to Cas at the end was for stopping him in time to not kill Sam. It wasn't for curing him.

I do wish d!Dean had said "here's Johnny" when he was smashing that door. I'm sure that was a shootout to The Shining.
Comments 
24th-Oct-2014 03:44 pm (UTC)
AGREED on your wish, lol.

The tumblr post O_O!!!!!

And that vid just floors me, she is uber awesome! *Re-watches for like the millionth time!*

I think Sammy didn't use his own blood a) because he still has demon blood running through him, purified by confession for the demon trials or not, and b) maybe he wondered if it would start the trials up again?!?

Edited at 2014-10-24 03:44 pm (UTC)
25th-Oct-2014 04:44 am (UTC)
So glad you enjoyed the vid! Such a great look at demon!Dean. :)

I think those are all plausible reason. I doubt they thought about that too hard but doesn't mean we can't come up with some ideas. Someone might ask him at the con this weekend. Maybe (after all the usual pranking questions...)

24th-Oct-2014 03:55 pm (UTC)
Oh boy. I hadn't seen all the kerfuffle about John's blood and Dean's blood and who's the baby daddy... ohhhhhkay.

I'm sure that was a Shining shout-out too, I'm surprised they didn't go there, especially given Dean's penchant for movie quoting.

Tears hair out over Sam being a meanie/Dean being a meanie. Oh sweet Lord of the Rings.
24th-Oct-2014 06:03 pm (UTC)
I don't think they went for The Shining refs because it was just too on-the-nose. Not that Show hasn't hit us with a bazillion anvils before...but that's my thinking. ;)
24th-Oct-2014 04:09 pm (UTC)
I need that fic. I want it now. Yes, please. I've read people talking about this fic. I need not one, but maybe tens of people to write this. Now.
:)
ehm.


s for John's blood type - yeah, those are the people who sent Dean riding a farty donkey through the Grand Canyon - so no. But I LOVE, lovelove that fandom did this, that people noticed it, and regardless of authors' intent that is very very cool, interesting!
25th-Oct-2014 04:50 am (UTC)
There's gotta be fic!

I think the theory is very cool. I love how we can take a mistake and make it a whole new direction. :)
24th-Oct-2014 06:06 pm (UTC)
He saved Sam for sure. He restrained Dean so Sam could finish the cure. Team work at the end). I also believe Dean's "thank you" to Cas at the end was for stopping him in time to not kill Sam. It wasn't for curing him.

OMG, THIS. There was some teamwork, yes, but Castiel saved Sam's bacon, not Dean. Sam's still the one who did all the work and took all the risks. And yes, Dean was thanking Castiel for saving Sam. Please tell me people aren't actually giving Cas all the credit for this?

ETA: Just saw the Tumblr post on blood. I don't recall show ever mentioning John's blood type. (It's possible that the writers were trying to imply that Sam went after universal-donor blood, but they got it wrong -- it's actually O-negative that's the universal donor.)

Or am I giving the writers too much credit . . . again? ;)

Edited at 2014-10-24 06:18 pm (UTC)
24th-Oct-2014 06:45 pm (UTC)
John's blood type was on his dog tags, umpteen episodes ago. I had to look it up too. It is, indeed, AB! I suspect Sam's line about "getting Dean's type" was just a throw-away that wasn't intended to mean anything. Sam grabbed O-neg, right? At the hospital? *too lazy to double-check that*
24th-Oct-2014 06:31 pm (UTC)
even with my most open mind I can't buy that. He saved Sam for sure. He restrained Dean so Sam could finish the cure. Team work at the end

aaaaah, I loved this so much! I mean, BE STILL MY SASSY-LOVING HEART, but I also think it was good for reasons going forward? Sam having been able to count on Cas to protect him from Dean is potentially a really big shift in all those group dynamics. I think those first impressions, where Cas had imprinted on Dean as his charge and had been indoctrinated to be repulsed by Sam, continued to distort their interactions even as Cas developed genuine affection for them both. Cas quite decisively siding with Sam here, even knowing that Dean would be okay with it in short order, is a good sign.

But there's a lot it highlights that's weird and uncomfortable about fandom's reaction to Sam? Like, we hear all this time about how much of a Writers Hate Sam (lol) failure it is that Sam is so isolated, and then Sam has someone care enough about him not to want him to get bludgeoned to death in his own home, and fandom leaps on that to negate his massive accomplishment here. I know it's subjective and not everyone's enjoying themselves as much as I am, but....not loving this part of it.
25th-Oct-2014 05:03 am (UTC)
Yes! To see that complete turn around from where Cas and Sam started off. I'm loving this development. There's no sense that Cas is siding with one over the other. In fact, he seems very much to have both of their welfares in mind. He was also prepared to let Dean die if he had too - not willingly, but he was warning Sam. Much like he kept warning Dean about putting Sam's soul back. He's pragmatic, but also caring. It's a shade of Cas I like.

And I'm one of those who feel that the writers don't have a clue about Sam. I mean, they might have an end game in mind but I feel that they are still trying to find their feet with him. It looks to me that Sam needs to "learn" that there ARE boundaries worth crossing for your brother - not matter the cost to innocent lives. That troubles me, but I suppose it is part of the story telling. And I know I'm a hypocrite in that I wanted Sam to do much more in S8 (instead of sit on his thumbs), but now, in S10 I don't want him to go too far. I keep saying it, if this is all about Sam's lesson in acceptance I'm not sure what I'll do with that. I can't believe they'll be one sided, so I gotta assume Dean will have some lessons too.
24th-Oct-2014 06:40 pm (UTC)
Oh, fandom...that tumblr post was fun, though! However I don't believe for a second the writers/prop dept. intended for there to be hints that John wasn't Dean's dad. Sam's throwaway line about getting Dean's type was just that: a throwaway line. I'll bet no one on staff remembers that John was AB. The scenario isn't impossible, granted, it's just HIGHLY implausible.

I did wonder myself why Sam didn't use his own blood, but only for a hot minute. It makes sense that he wouldn't, simply from a practical standpoint. Sam clearly hasn't been taking care of himself and is hella run down. He probably knew damned well it'd be a baaaaad idea to be low on blood, as well as sleep, food, stamina, etc. But there IS also the concern that it might restart the Trials, and that his recent behavior would make him unsanctifiable. (I don't think it's the 'trace demon blood' theory because Show has pretty much left that plot thread in the dust. I think at one point, someone at a convention--pretty sure it was Jared--said he thought Sam's demon blood had all been burned away, but that was before Season Eight. Though I would absolutely ADORE it if the show ended up touching on the demon blood idea; it seems kinda nonsensical that Sam wouldn't be concerned about it.)

I very much believe a lot of the mean stuff demon!Dean said to Sam was coming from a place of truth, but he'd never admit it under normal circumstances. Sam will make noise to Dean about how it "wasn't really you, forget about it, bro," but neither of them will. Dean will keep feeling horrid about it and continue to beat himself up, as he does, and Sam will internalize the comments and keep them simmering until they explode in a hurt (and potentially hurtful) blast.

I am curious as to how the Mark will impact newly rehumanized Dean. Remind me, was Dean suffering 'withdrawal' at the end of S9 due to not killing, or due to not having the Blade in his possession? Either way, that will likely be part of what mid-S10 is all about...getting the Blade back from Crowley and/or trying to figure out how to remove the Mark.

Then there's the mystery ginger at the end of the episode...hmm...

25th-Oct-2014 05:14 am (UTC)
I didn't even know we knew what John's blood type was. It was an amazing pick up, but yeah totally left of field. I think Sam's line was to somehow explain why he wasn't using his own. That was my first impression. He's not a match and it meant he could have it purified a different way than having to make a confession. Quick problem solving as they weren't going to let Sam drain himself when there was so much action that was going to take place.

don't think it's the 'trace demon blood' theory because Show has pretty much left that plot thread in the dust.

Yep. Gone. Long gone. What demon blood?

Though I would absolutely ADORE it if the show ended up touching on the demon blood idea; it seems kinda nonsensical that Sam wouldn't be concerned about it

I'd love it too. Even just some reference. Perhaps stating an understand of what it's like to be addicted to something. I assume Dean will still be somewhat addicted to the blade's call so it might still get mentioned.

but neither of them will. Dean will keep feeling horrid about it and continue to beat himself up, as he does, and Sam will internalize the comments and keep them simmering until they explode in a hurt (and potentially hurtful) blast.

Nailed it! Plus Sam will be carrying baggage about what he did to save Dean. So yeah...lots of angst and pain to come. Yay.

Remind me, was Dean suffering 'withdrawal' at the end of S9 due to not killing, or due to not having the Blade in his possession?

Good question. I can't remember either. I think there was a need to be holding the blade and using it. So probably both. I wonder if he'll be "reset" and not feel the drawn for a while. But yes, that will be the arc this season. They'll need to figure out a way to get rid of the Mark and blade. I'm glad that's still on the cards for the season.
24th-Oct-2014 08:22 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the video rec :)
25th-Oct-2014 05:06 am (UTC)
Pleasure! :)
24th-Oct-2014 09:34 pm (UTC)
I don't connect curing Dean to the trials. Men of Letters cured a demon, it had no effect on Hell, the trials were a distinct pattern of rituals with each one following the last, incantations to be read etc. when the last one failed the trials ended. Curing Dean of being a demon now would have no effect on the already finished trials. Sam knew though how it drained him, how much blood, (probably a slew more than the Men of Letters used on the original cure) when he attempted it last time and he's been really smart this time around, takes no chances and gets in a bucket load - I LOVE this Sam to itty bitty pieces.

Blood group is fun - I don't think they're seriously setting this up as a huge reveal, just one more instance where keeping a show bible would have come in useful. There's also the Michael Vessel problem and the bloodlines needed for angel occupation. It could point to John having a brother who knocked up Mary, but there just wasn't a sign of anyone else in the back flash episodes. Granted, if you want to push the theory, there's nothing to say any of those back flashes were the actual truth, angels manipulate humans, angels changed the whole time line over the Titanic, so who knows what else they've changed throughout the show and what they've shown the brothers is real, I never believed in Zac's version of heaven although many do. My pet head canon is that Castiel actually changed the whole time line to orchestrate Dean and Lisa never meeting in the first place, wiping her memories just seems rather pointless in a world where every demon knew what she meant to Dean. *shrugs*

Fandom has far too much fun with these things and I expect we'll have more on this one.

There was a moment when I expected the 'here's Johnny' line, but then I remembered, this wasn't Dean but a knight of hell. So that worked well for me, the expected not happening.

Cas saved Dean? Yeah, and I'm a bloody talking stuffed bear with a piglet and a tigger for best friends. Come on, really? Ah, bless their hopeful, blind and shippy little souls, look hard enough and you can convince yourself the moon is made of cheese, but can we get back to watching the actual show now?
25th-Oct-2014 02:41 pm (UTC)
*nods* I (and I'm pretty sure the show) don't connect Dean to the trials either. They learned how to cure a demon during the trials but if they were going to make a thing of not using Sam's blood because he might inadvertently finish the trials and die - then they would have made a HUGE deal about it. And yeah - incantations etc etc.

takes no chances and gets in a bucket load - I LOVE this Sam to itty bitty pieces.

Other than being easily caught by Cole he's been really smart this time. He had prepared himself for catching and curing Dean. He knew how hard it would be (and didn't know if it would be successful).

just one more instance where keeping a show bible would have come in useful.

I seriously think they should have a way of checking with fans on any canon issues. A place to post "have the boys ever been to the Grand Canyon before?" and "would there be an issue with introducing a rogue reaper who could open a door to purgatory and then have a way into hell?" and "hey guys! Do you think it would be plausible that Sam wouldn't look for Dean if he just disappeared before his eye?". We'd tell them! (and of course I'm joking. The answers would be WILD and represent all the different interpretations that fandom have). And did you see the cap of John's dog tags? I had no idea his blood type was on it and I'd be DAMN SURE the deadly due wouldn't either.

My pet head canon is that Castiel actually changed the whole time line to orchestrate Dean and Lisa never meeting in the first place, wiping her memories just seems rather pointless in a world where every demon knew what she meant to Dean. *shrugs*

Oooh, I like that! That would make more sense (shame that Sam mentions also dating someone "bendy" so Dean still remembers her). I would love to see that whole thing re-visited. I am sure Lisa would be a target because of Dean. She could be dead and Ben homeless for all he knows.

Aaanyway….

There was a moment when I expected the 'here's Johnny' line, but then I remembered, this wasn't Dean but a knight of hell.

I do love that fandom has given it to us! (see gif set below in this thread). I suppose I'm glad also because it would have been too much. I like that it was a clear reference though.

Cas saved Dean?

Yep! There's even a twitter hashtag for it and everything. ;) And just read that "the cure didn't work until castiel arrived because
up until then Dean was living with the fear of not having Cas in his life". And some other proof that Cas was the "cure" because apparently in 9.03 "where Castiel's mirror Maurice is an anagram for "I am cure". To be honest, that seals it for me. Sam didn't do anything - including pumping the rest of the blood into Dean (there's a cap that shows the empty bags on a table, indicating that Sam continued the treatment). Cas was the cure! I mostly smile at this stuff now (I just wish I could smile at the character bashing, but it can get difficult sometimes…)

Personally, I loved that Cas actually saved Sam (who then finished curing Dean). It built a further bridge between Cas and Sam, which is at least something (and as I've been told they needed a Cas and Dean scene because Cas isn't in it for quite a few eps now…).

Awwww - Pooh bear, piglet and tigger…<33
25th-Oct-2014 12:46 am (UTC)
That tumblr post is so interesting. I've seen many ppl mention it so far. But I have two issues with it. 1) being that type O is a universal donor, no matter what blood type Dean was, type O would work for him. I doubt with all their injuries that Sam wouldn't know Dean's blood type but at least he picked the most generic one. 2) when the brothers go into the past to warn Mary, they try to tell her to leave John but she says it's too late, that she's already pregnant. She's with John at that time and already pregnant with Dean. From the stories she tells Dean about John in both go-into-the-past episodes, it sounds like they were dating for a while because she talks about John before and after the war and how he still believes in love. The only way I could think to explain Mary being pregnant with Dean while with John is if she was with someone else who left her upon finding out she was pregnant and John chose to support her. I doubt that is the case though because in that episode it sounds like John doesn't even know she's pregnant yet.

I have to say though, that if this isn't just a misstep by props, this would be a really interesting storyline. It continues the whole "family don't end with blood" idea quite literally. I also think Dean being type O as the universal donor is very fitting and in character for him being so selfless and heroic.
25th-Oct-2014 02:59 pm (UTC)
Yeah - it's all extremely unlikely (I'd even say impossible) that they have a major (like MAJOR!) canon change coming up. Or new development like that. It was such a throw away line and the writers wouldn't even have known that we once saw John's blood type.

It continues the whole "family don't end with blood" idea quite literally.

It would indeed be quite a major development. And who know, with years and years to go (it seems!) they might need to change things up a bit. Though Sam and Dean as step-brothers could be interesting (would explain why they look nothing a like!)
25th-Oct-2014 02:48 am (UTC)
Thanks for rec'ing the video - it was awesome!

The tumblr post - Sheesh! People actually think there's meaning in it, that TPTB are going to undo all of what the show is based on?

I have read two post episode fics but I don't think they are what you're looking for. They're a bit not Dean friendly. If I see a wonderful ending fic, I will definitely rec it to you. Here's the others in case you want to try them:
1)http://quakerhobbit.tumblr.com/post/100672466591/the-epilogue-sam-deserves
2)https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10775206/1/After-Survival

Edited at 2014-10-25 02:50 am (UTC)
25th-Oct-2014 03:09 pm (UTC)
Oh whaaaaaaaa! I read those fics and they broke my heart!!!! I really liked them though. It gave me even more sam feels. And just when I've decided I can't be feeling sorry for Sam any more. I truly don;t think the show has any real sympathy for him so I feel like I need to get on board with that.

The one with Jody and Alex looking after him - *bawls like a baby* (might just have to past these recs on in the next spn_littlebro newsletter).

Thanks!
25th-Oct-2014 05:16 am (UTC)
Sorry. I found this on pinterest yesterday via tumbler and
I just couldn't resist when I saw your post)

Supernatural Shining




25th-Oct-2014 05:26 am (UTC)
Perfect! That's what I was after! :D
25th-Oct-2014 05:34 am (UTC)
The blood type post was interesting but I think it's canon like reapers-are-angels canon and there is a back door to Hell through Purgatory that the King of Hell and an Angel of the Lord knew nothing about. I figure it doesn't matter what blood type he had originally, Cas may have tinkered with things when he put Dean back together after Hell. That's not nearly as much fun to speculate about though.

My question along the lines of the ones above is did Sam back off killing Dean when he knew Cas was there or before that? Sam pulling the blade away made sure Dean was focused on him and not the arrival of Cas.
25th-Oct-2014 03:37 pm (UTC)
My question along the lines of the ones above is did Sam back off killing Dean when he knew Cas was there or before that? Sam pulling the blade away made sure Dean was focused on him and not the arrival of Cas.

Ooh yes. I suspect he saw Cas a split second before. Though, I'd like to think Sam really wasn't going to kill Dean. But it's a good question - if Dean really was trying to kill him would he defend himself by killing him?

Re the blood type - I don't even think they've "messed" with past canon with this because it's just sooooo tiny. I mean, ok, John had AB blood but the reason they gave for Sam using O was good enough a reason (that didm;t involve massively changing the dynamics of canon. However, if they decide to make "John isn't really Dean's dad" a story line - well, then they'll be messing with some well established canon.

The stuff fans pick up on though (hee - though we should know…;D)!

25th-Oct-2014 09:00 am (UTC)
Thanks so much for the rec!

The tumblr thing sounds more like something from a soap or Grey's Anatomy, heh. But it certainly shows how passionate this fandom is with how much time people spent on finding evidence to support their theory.

I agree with everything you said, specifically Dean's thank you. I had no doubt it was a "thank you for stopping me from killing my brother" when I watched it. The "thank you for saving my ass", if we'll ever get to hear it, would be meant to Sam.
26th-Oct-2014 12:17 pm (UTC)
I had no doubt it was a "thank you for stopping me from killing my brother" when I watched it..

Yeah, me too. I watched it again to check and he's definitely thanking him for getting there in time. I've seen some people are upset that Dean could say thanks to Cas but not to Sam. They felt that the thanks was for saving him, but it just wasn't.

I'm not sure Sam will get a thank (at least for a while), because I'm not entirely sure how happy Dean will be to be back - or be pleased about what Sam did to find him. But I hope he at least acknowledges what Sam's been through and does thank him at some point.
25th-Oct-2014 01:45 pm (UTC)
ABOUT THE BLOOD:

While I do like to see all the theories and ideas about storylines people could see evolve from that theory, I'm pretty sure that

a) no one in the probs department even thought to check / remembered that we could see a blood type on John's dog tags. Farting donkey in the Grand Canyon anyone?

b) Sam's comment about making sure he got Dean's blood type was IMHO more meant as "I did get blood that is compatible with your human blood and won't kill you". Which 0 would be, even if Dean's blood type isn't 0.

c) Or b2) That line could also be an explanation for not using his own blood as the brothers could be incompatible (one A, one B - which would work with John having AB, which would 0 make a blood type that would work for both of them). That, plus the whole demon blood tainting and aborted trials and whatever else crawled through Sam's body/blood over the years) that he might not want to throw into the mix.

d) Yes, after all these years on a hunt they would know both each others and John's blood type so that a missing biological parentage is something that I would have seen coming up in teenage years (biology classes), not now.

So yeah, my guess is they throw that line in to explain C because there would be people asking about "why didn't Sam use his own as he did with Crowley" despite my other listed reasons why that could be a bad idea.

ABOUT THE SHINING and not quoting that line - let's quote Bobby


http://youtu.be/e1Ty32y2et8

ABOUT THE AFTERMATH

Yes Yes Yes, all you wonderful writers in SPNfanfic land, please write something about that because we all know show will just ignore it and move on without ever mentioning it again.
26th-Oct-2014 12:30 pm (UTC)
Yep to all those reasons! It's curious how a simple mistake has created such a lot of discussion and dissection amongst fans.

And thanks for the reminder about that scene! I had forgotten about that. The Shining has been used a few times in the show. :)

The couple of of fics recced above are good (heartbreaking though). It's good to see people writing stuff so soon after the ep. :))
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