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So ya know... 
5th-Feb-2015 07:10 pm
Now & Then
I'm not going to be writing up a reaction or review of 10.12. In fact, it's unlikely I'll be writing them any more. I feel I only want to complain these days and that's not fair on anyone (though I'm thinking of writing up some general stuff - mostly to help me try and work why I'm feeling just over it all).

I am still curious about what every one thought so I'll still do the polls (if you're all still happy to fill them out *g*).

Poll #1998102 10.12 episode reaction

I thought 10.12 was

Awesome! Loved it!
32(42.7%)
Pretty good! Enjoyed most of it.
30(40.0%)
Ok. It had its ups and downs.
6(8.0%)
Meh. Something was lacking.
2(2.7%)
Ugh. Nope.
5(6.7%)
Comments 
5th-Feb-2015 11:26 am (UTC)
*hugs*
5th-Feb-2015 11:41 am (UTC)
<3
5th-Feb-2015 11:56 am (UTC)
*hugs* <3. my grade is an F for everything. this series is going down the toilet. at 1st, my grade was a D, then i thought on it and remembered the last scene was stupid and then changed it :(. this show with my name initials is going down the toilet. *hugs you again* <3. i did enjoy the ep, til the pretty lamp.. i mean Sam got knocked out again, and the ending scene killed my enjoyment all together

Edited at 2015-02-05 12:07 pm (UTC)
5th-Feb-2015 12:09 pm (UTC)
Strangely, I really enjoyed the episode. I even re-watched it (so I could admire Dylan's performance all over again). I just figure that after an episode that showcases they brothers' relationship and I STILL feel empty, then it probably means it's fading for me. My discontent is complex I think (in terms of why I'm so annoyed at the show), so I'm thinking it might be time for a little break from trying to find deep layers that just don't exist anymore).

5th-Feb-2015 12:49 pm (UTC)
Tbh, if it weren't for the serial I'm writing, I wouldn't be watching the show any more but, so long as my readers are, I feel I have to be in touch with what's going on there. But it's been several seasons now since I've regarded show as canon. In order to remain philosophical about it, I find it helps to regard it as professional fanfiction - of variable standard, some goodish some bad some indifferent. Glass is actually one of the better writers, I think, but that's only measured by the standard of what we've got left. The trouble is, they lost my willing suspension of disbelief a long time ago, and once that's gone I think it's next to impossible to get it back. After that, all you can see is holes.
5th-Feb-2015 01:03 pm (UTC)
Yeah. That's me now. It upsets be greatly (real tears last night.../o\) because I LOVED my disbelief being suspended. I loved believing they had a plan. I loved thinking this universe was solid and meant something. I saw through it all in that episode and it kind of killed me. But. At the same time, I think it might be a good thing. By not doing the reactions anymore I might stop watching it trying to find layers and connecting threads.

For me the fact that they don't seem to have anyone who can write Sam left on staff is just so depressing. We've had 12 episodes and not one examining Sam - even when there's been opportunities to do so.
5th-Feb-2015 01:06 pm (UTC)
wow, i LOVED the ep, the acting was nop notch, i laughed out loud a lot.

I was happy that Sam got a BAMF moment in the bar and a speech at the end.

Jared was BRILLIANT working off teen Dean, you would swear that he was really talking to Dean.Mini Dean was so good,fantastic chemistry with Sam.

My only minor niggle was that Hansel and Gretel didn't really do it for me but everything else was awesome, including the end.
5th-Feb-2015 01:22 pm (UTC)
yay! So happy you loved it hun!

I adored Dylan's performance. He got Dean perfectly. And he and Jared really worked well together.

(My niggles are long term, deeply entrenched ones now. Nothing to do specifically with that episode. In fact, it's one of the few this season I've re-watched almost immediately just so I could watch the boys together…*g*).
5th-Feb-2015 01:20 pm (UTC)
I really enjoyed Dylan's performance of Dean, I think this is what saved the episode for me.

However, I just feel annoyed that Dean had to save the day and Sam had to say thank you for it. It's not enough that during Dean's storyline of MOC we are getting episode after episode of Sam being supportive and showing Dean's feelings and emotions (I mean where was that when Sam was on demon blood? but hey that's in the past.) Would it kill the writers to show Sam's POV once? I know what he says about the MOC but I want to see how he feels about it.

And was I the only one holding out hope to see a little!Sam? I mean if Sam had to be saved seeing an itty bitty Sam would be logical right?

I stopped writing reviews a long time ago too. They felt too much like a chore rather than fun to me.
5th-Feb-2015 01:34 pm (UTC)
Would it kill the writers to show Sam's POV once?

I actually think it would. They've avoided it for nearly 3 years now so yep, I reckon they must feel they'd DIE if they actually gave us a moment of Sam ;D).

Dean's storyline of MOC we are getting episode after episode of Sam being supportive and showing Dean's feelings and emotions

I love supportive Sam but that's ALL he's done so far. I think he's told Dean "you can beat this" in the last 3 episodes. I feel like shouting…we know!

And was I the only one holding out hope to see a little!Sam?

OMG! How awesome that would have been?! Surprise wee!Sam. Young Dean and Sam together would have been all sorts of fun? But I was spoiled for that NOT happening so I didn't expect it. I did think Sam would have more to do, but I seriously have to resign myself to the fact that until Sam does something "bad" to (try) and save Dean, he's just gonna do nothing (speculation, but I think that's where it's heading. Full circle).

They felt too much like a chore rather than fun to me.

I love doing them. I love chatting about the show but I feel like all I'm doing these days is complain. So many people loved this episode (and I can understand why!) and I feel like I'm out of step. I just can't seem to get excited about what everyone else is getting excited about.
5th-Feb-2015 01:43 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed it and the things that bugged me I was able to let go because overall I liked it so much.

But I feel ya. I went through those feelings with Smallville in Season 9 and had to let it go for awhile. I watched the first few episodes and stopped. But then, I came back S10 and loved every minute. Maybe a break is what you need? :)
5th-Feb-2015 02:02 pm (UTC)
The small things that bugged me I could easily over look (like it was so weird that one minute Sam was bashing a guy's head on a bar being so anxious about Dean and the next he was looking so very relaxed searching through websites…*handwaves*). It's the overall bigger picture that they refuse to address - essentially because it no longer exists) that worn me down.

I'll still watch. Always! But I'm going to take a break from the complaining (and hopefully disappointment).

5th-Feb-2015 01:44 pm (UTC)
I've been thinking about damsel-in-distress!Sam and the way he's effectively erased from the critical fight scenes for the last, oh, year and a half, and I wonder if part of it isn't gender-related. Sam is often portrayed as the feminine one (Samantha, being into books and studying, preferring emotional connections to picking up a chick in a bar, etc.), and one of the pleasures of this show has always been the two brothers being equal in smarts and strength and agency. When that equality is eroded, making Sam the helpless "woman" who has to be rescued by Dean (or by Gadreel, last season), might we resent it more because as women, we were enjoying watching a relationship between equals?

IDK, just a thought. I also wanted to say that it's totally understandable for you to take a step back. I wasn't as upset as other people with the ep because I'm no longer surprised at how the writers treat Sam. Sad, yes, but I guess I've come to expect it and so will concentrate on the good parts, like how frickin' awesome Dylan Everett was on his own and with Jared.
5th-Feb-2015 02:15 pm (UTC)
Hi. It's an interesting point. I really can't work it out. It's like they fear that if Sam is instrumental in those fight scenes (or has moments any other character) it will some how detract from Dean. I think Sam's "need" to be rescued is tied into Dean's heroism. There are times I love it, but man - it's becoming so repetitive.

might we resent it more because as women, we were enjoying watching a relationship between equals?

I certainly know I enjoy watching them as equals. :) Not sure if that's because I'm a women or just because the one sided story telling is getting a bit tedious to me.

I wasn't as upset as other people with the ep

Oh, other people were upset with it? I felt like I was the only one (and actually, I enjoyed it. Like last week's episode. They're fine, but I'm just not feeling them like I used to). I've mostly seen squee (which is great!) so I've been really feeling out of step…)
5th-Feb-2015 02:31 pm (UTC)
Funnily enough, I know how you feel. I enjoyed this episode enormously but when it was over, there wasn't really much I wanted to say. I'm supposed to be writing an episode reaction fic, and I can't think of a hook. I'm actually relying on other people's reaction posts to help ME react.

So damn, I'm going to miss your reaction posts! (And I don't think you were moaning at all btw).
5th-Feb-2015 02:47 pm (UTC)
Thanks hun. These days I feel like I just can't add…SQUEEEEEE! like I used to. It wouldn't take me much for it all to be alright again but as that's actually never going to happen I think it's best to stop writing stuff just to moan…;)

The ep had such a lot going for it. The performances we great and the idea was fun. I keep telling myself if an ep like this doesn't get me excited then there's gotta be something wrong…(with me).

Good luck with the hook! (if you loved it go with that! For me it just needed Dean somehow understanding Sam just that little bit more. I seriously don't think it's even a consideration in the 'verse at the moment. But that moment when Dean "gets" Sam will be the day the show changes for me. Instead, I know we are heading for Sam "getting" Dean (which is such a used theme now I'm kinda just over it all…D:)
5th-Feb-2015 02:55 pm (UTC)
I understand your frustration on wanting to continue your reaction posts. It's gotten to a point where we look deeper for something and it's never there so we aren't really satisfied, like a thirst that can't be quenched. I feel like I'm dying sometimes wanting that sip that will keep me going!

Don't get me started on Sam continuing to be sidelined, makes me see red.

I wasn't happy with the song choice at the end. It may have been a joke but after that great scene the boys had at the bus station, I wanted something classic rock angsty for their drive away. Adam Glass mentioned on twitter his son was part of this episode thought process, maybe it was the son's idea for the song reference and using it IDK. We can't get Zepp on the show but we can get Taylor Swift? Um, wtf?! That couldn't have been cheap.

Episodes are less scary than ever, maybe it's to keep the younger viewers tuning in and not be sent to bed early by their parents. They aren't the demographic so I'm reaching now for something to explain it. I'm drawing a blank tbh.

I always read your posts and the comments from other fans for other points of view even if I don't comment. I love your thinky thoughts on things that are relevant that I may not have thought about. If taking a break is what you need, I say do it for your own sanity <3
5th-Feb-2015 08:09 pm (UTC)
Todd Aronauer said on twitter that the Taylor Swift song choice was all Bob Singer, who thought it was funny. It was just a lame Singer joke, as usual.
5th-Feb-2015 04:39 pm (UTC)
Aww, bb, no . . . It's OKAY to not like an episode or be dissatisfied with the way things are going. I love your reviews, positive or negative. *massive hugs*
6th-Feb-2015 02:01 am (UTC)
Thanks sweetie. I think I'm just tired of coming off an episode with no emotion. I loved having something to actually say. Now I just come across as a bitter!Sam girl (which, ha! I am…). I'll still watch for interesting stuff and the day an ep grabs me and I want to SQUEE about it I will!! *g*

*hugs*
5th-Feb-2015 04:42 pm (UTC)
I so understand you.. :*
I watched this episode while wondering when it would be starting. They have managed to make it so hollow that I'm sitting in front of the episode feeling... nothing.
To me it all just felt so constructed. Like a dead body on strings for movement. How the hell did they do that? I mean I noticed what bothered me like the fairy tale thing, the stage play kind of conversations (I don't know how else to describe it),mostly incompetent hunter boys, meaningless moments filled with artificial meaning, emotionless emotions. But to actually rob a show of its soul is an accomplishment.. :/
I'm glad though to see that others are still enjoying Show the way it is now. For me, it's not what I fell in love with.. not sure what this is now. Watching a decaying body perhaps?
Ye, great mood I'm in, eh? I'm just emotionally speechless I think. Or maybe I got killed by one too many anvils and am, in fact, dead.

I second your "blank" icon in your post and raise you a "sad Sam".

((big comfort hugs))
5th-Feb-2015 05:00 pm (UTC)
After reading some positive opinions here on the thread I feel nearly bad about my own reaction. But the feeling of looking at a pretty box with nothing in it was overwhelming to me.
Btw, with "stage play conversations" I didn't mean the actors (I thought they all did great) but the way it was put together... I'm not good at explaining that. lol. So yeah, misunderstandings and hate replies ahoi. lol

Oh, and I very much agree with "winsangel" on having wanted something classic rock angsty for their drive away in the end. It really irked me.

xx
5th-Feb-2015 06:47 pm (UTC)

haven't watched this episode, b I think the thing with Sam is that his story, his journey, has come to an, well, end. he is the one who is at peace, so to speak, with the world and himself, mostly. you still can throw life at him, but he knows who he is and he knows his limits, and he is ok with it. on the other hand, Dean is not there yet. so, in a way, it's understandable that the story revolves around Dean. frustrating, but understandable.

6th-Feb-2015 12:16 am (UTC)
Oh nice point. And I would be so so happy with that if we got to see Sam's journey to that place. I am left with this overwhelming need to know why Sam is so ok (and know we all can come up with great ideas about thst, I just wish the show would). I know dean is still dealing with this and I like that it's been so thoroughly explored - very, very thoroughly (which, yeah possibly some of my bitterness is tied up in that too).

Thanks for that. It makes sense. :)
5th-Feb-2015 08:06 pm (UTC)
Here's the thing to remember about Carver - he doesn't give a shit about Sam, and he's never going to give a shit about Sam. He came in and from the first episode of his era, he rebooted Sam back to the simplest version of himself - "Normal Life Sam". It didn't matter what had happened between the pilot and 8.1, because Carver was going to make that fit regardless.

Sam has always been used as a plot device on this show, but Kripke and Gamble understood that there was a human being underneath as well, and cared enough about him to try and tease out emotion and characterization through that. Carver doesn't give a fuck about that, because I firmly believe that he is not interested in Sam as a character and thinks he's boring and, because of those reasons, doesn't want to work hard enough to figure him out and put him onscreen.

Do I think he likes Dean? Nah. But Dean's an easier character to write. Everyone and their mother knows how Dean is feeling at any given moment. Dean is iconic, he's popular, he cries so pretty, he has his hot car and his well-known catchphrases, and he comes in the package that is Jensen Ackles. He's easy to throw things at, and they know people are going to connect to him because of all the reasons in this paragraph, no matter what the character says or does.

Carver likes the supernatural creatures. Cas and Crowley and Benny and Garth the new werewolf -- this is all playing to his nouveau-Being Human schtick that he came in trying to turn the show into, even if it's really like shoving a square peg in a round hole. Kripke said the show was about normal humans in an extraordinary world - Carver likes extraordinary creatures in a normal human world. But those are the types of characters that he enjoys, and if he could get away with not focusing on the brothers because of J2 contract reasons, you can bet your ass he'd do it in a heartbeat.

What am I trying to say? I don't remember, because I have the flu and I'm hopped up on Dayquil lulz. But the moral of the story, I guess, is that once I figured out all the above, I realized that if I was going to continue to watch, I had to accept that was the shit I was going to get, and try to enjoy the other stuff that WAS better than the last two years of terribleness.

As for this episode, Dylan Everett was great and it pleases me greatly that most of him nailing the mannerisms came from working with Jared, and Jared knowing Jensen's body so well (RAWR, BABY, RAWR)
6th-Feb-2015 04:07 am (UTC)
God, this is so well summed up and SO. INFURIATING.

Thank you, though, for putting it into words. I'm going to go plunge headfirst into my AU where I try to make all these problems right (i.e., with not treating Sam as an actual person).
5th-Feb-2015 09:25 pm (UTC)
Sorry to hear that - your posts are always a highlight for me. But I completely understand how you feel. I think for me, the biggest frustration is how they start off each season with potentially great ideas that just seem to fizzle out within a few episodes and end up going nowhere. The whole 'Dean is a demon' thing is only the latest example of that. Oh, and then there's the character regression...I could go on...basically what everyone here has already said.
6th-Feb-2015 01:39 pm (UTC)
Hi. I'll missing posting reaction because I love chatting about the show. If an episode really grabs me and I have positive things to say I'll probably do one for that ep. :)

It's so weird to me that the seasons start off pretty strong (well, expect for S8) and the idea gets ditched and isn't resolved. Even S8 had some potentially interesting ideas to explore (like why exactly Sam didn't look for Dean, and what effect spending a year in Purgatory meant to Dean…), but they seem to chicken out of any real exploration of that. Losing demon!dean after only 3 eps was disappointing (though it looks like mark!Dean might take his place…(?).
5th-Feb-2015 11:54 pm (UTC)
I want the Sam who took out two S.W.A.T. guys BY. HIMSELF. back.

I know he's been knocked around a bit and his head has been royally fucked up but COME ON! He even took the bartender and bashed his head into the bar, where was that Sam fighting Hansel?
6th-Feb-2015 01:51 pm (UTC)
I want the Sam who took out two S.W.A.T. guys BY. HIMSELF. back.

OMG! Yes please!

where was that Sam fighting Hansel?

Check out borgmama1of5's comment below. It's an interesting take on what Sam may have been doing during that scene.
6th-Feb-2015 04:03 am (UTC)
Aw! I'll miss your recaps, because I want to know what's going on with Show, but only at a distance, and through someone whose analysis I trust. I only didn't comment to the last one because I felt it would be too repetitive to say "thank you for summing up all the reasons I do not watch anymore -- i.e., the lack of Sam Winchester as anything more than a flannel-covered impression of himself). I don't want it to be a chore for you, though.
6th-Feb-2015 01:53 pm (UTC)
I'll miss them too! Though if an episode makes me want to squee I will be posting that! (and I can bet you if Sam actually plays a part or has a voice in the ep I'll probably be squeeing about it. At the moment I feel like I'm becoming repetitive by my constant…"but what about Sam?". So yeah. I have a nagging feeling it's probably going to get worse… I'll be happy to be wrong though. :)
6th-Feb-2015 01:34 pm (UTC)
In discussing this ep with a friend, she gave me this insight:

Yes, super technically Dean saved Sam but, no, that's not what actually happened at all. Sam was down but he could have gotten out of it. I don't doubt it for a second -- he's freakin' Sam Winchester and witch or not she was an old, chubby woman. Let's look at the dialog:

Dean: “I know what you’re gonna say, okay, but you were in deep and…”

Sam: “I know, I know. You saved me, and you saved Tina. You pulled a Dean Winchester. Thank you.”

This was Sam saving Dean in the way that counted. He let him save the day and be the hero that Sam knows Dean is. Only instead of just saying it he let it play out and let Dean demonstrate.

Perhaps that will help with your dismay over this ep? I feel sad that you are being let down.
6th-Feb-2015 01:47 pm (UTC)
Hi. Wow, that's a really interesting take. I like it a lot. I'd love to think that was true (and maybe it doesn't matter - maybe, we can just take that reading anyway).

Though, I do accept that Sam is currently saving Dean from completely losing it. He's doing a lot to save Dean from himself (his own mind for example) and I do like that. There's also a lot of strength in Sam. I just. Man, I don't know. Even just 2 minutes of knowing what Sam is thinking or is going through would help. I'm not greedy…*g*, just some acknowledgement about where Sam is finding that strength (personally, I think it's his past experiences but the show never acknowledges that Sam HAD had past experiences. He just does things to help the plot along).

But thank you! I do like that take on it. And I know that people are generally feeling good about Sam (even peeps who don't usually like Sam), so there's got to be a win in that I figure. :)

xx
7th-Feb-2015 10:19 am (UTC)
I'm not sure I should even be commenting on this any longer - however!

Sitting watching? This was a highly enjoyable episode, it had touches of everything I've been missing from the show, it had excellent performances, it had no angel and demon plot lines, a great supernatural myth, brothers looking out for each other, put this in season 2 and I probably would have been shouting from the roof tops.

But we're not in season 2, I don't want to go back to season 2, we're 10 years down a hard, long road, littered with broken promises and dead friends. Where we are now and with what's gone before? As many times as I complain about their complicated plotting and the anvils, this one was so far removed from what went on last year it's not even paper over the cracks, it's spider webs over chasms of missed opportunity. There were so many places they could have used to turn a corner, but no, plough on through without actually getting any where.

But to me, that's what show has become, all the dropped plots and situations shine like beacons over what is now a very shallow and watered down surface apology of the characterisation of Dean and Sam that doesn't seem to know where it wants to focus, except re-setting them into a simple 'one's wrong, while t'other worries' or 'Dean still has to save everyone and his baby brother Sam' base line every season and be damned the fact they already saved the bloody world once, grew up, faced their deepest fears of losing each other and made that ultimate sacrifice, move on! Writing is poor and is whatever they think the certain loudest fans want to see and will gain the most retweets of the night, I get it, basking in the glow of SPN fandom love must be addictive, but get off the fucking internet and out of fandom and look at this show's history not it's fandom's wants and needs. Lowest Common Denominator, we has reached it.

I've reached the point of not caring any longer. I withdrew from fandom and haven't read any fiction for a couple of years now, hoping I could re-kindle my love of show, didn't work and now I feel even further away from show than ever, with no desire to even start reading again because I don't even like this Dean and Sam any longer. Take it from me, take the show for what it is, a bit of fantasy fodder in pretty pictures and throw yourself into fandom, you'll be happier, fandom can fix anything.

****
7th-Feb-2015 12:51 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure I should even be commenting on this any longer - however!

I love it when you do! :)

put this in season 2 and I probably would have been shouting from the roof tops.

OMG! Me too! It really did have it all. Like last week, I really enjoyed it. And, like last week it left me empty. I felt like I could see the machinations of it all.

it's spider webs over chasms of missed opportunity.

Oh, nicely put.

And YES! It's the opportunities to say/do something that they keep missing. The fact is, it became very clear that they just don't see that there IS anything to address. It really is like none of that ever happened. None of ANYTHING from S8 on seems relevant. I just wish they could tie in some of the huge issues they started to address last season. I know it's "just a TV show", but dammit - some of us watch it intently, not just as a passing show (I gotta figure that of the nearly 2mil that watch in the US when it airs, most of them are just passing watchers…. I really don't know).

but get off the fucking internet and out of fandom and look at this show's history not it's fandom's wants and needs.

OH GOD! This SO MUCH! And that's so it! Adam Glass was tweeting before it aired and during the episode and it's all this "acceptance" that's so worrying. I know it must be rewarding having fans shower you with love, but I want them to write stories because of an overall arc and plan, not for instant gratification. Glass wanted to use Dylan Everett again (don't blame him!!) but he wasted a great opportunity to do something between the brothers other than reinforce that Sam worries about Dean and Dean is fighting the Mark. But yeah. Too complicated I suppose.

Take it from me, take the show for what it is, a bit of fantasy fodder in pretty pictures and throw yourself into fandom, you'll be happier, fandom can fix anything

Yeah. Good advice. And I'm trying! *g* I always said I would not go quietly. I'll go kicking and screaming out of this fandom. OR maybe I will eventually just lose interest...
7th-Feb-2015 11:13 am (UTC)
Love you hun *hugs* I wish I could help you feel a little less empty about it all ♥
7th-Feb-2015 11:51 am (UTC)
Thanks hun! (you deleted your other comment before I had a chance to read it ;D).

(the issues seems to have created a stir so I understand…xx)
7th-Feb-2015 07:24 pm (UTC)
I really really enjoyed the episode, but I'm really sorry to hear that you're feeling down about Show. You can't help how you feel personally, so hopefully some time away will help you. So here's some *hugs* and *support* from me (and if you ever want to chat or a friendly ear to listen I'm only a pm away) xx
8th-Feb-2015 03:36 am (UTC)
Thanks sweetie. I'm too emotionally attached to this show to just bow out quietly. ;) I mean, I enjoyed the episode too. Or rather, it was a great "classic" spn episode - lots of wonderful brother moments and Dylan was fantastic. It's just hard for me to go with this new found bond between them when so much was left unsaid and unresolved last season (on the screen. Apparently. Jared's made peace with it - so Sam has been able to move on). My expectations are just a bit too high I think. I keep hoping for something that's never going to happen and I need to just accept that and move on…

*hugs* and thanks! <33
7th-Feb-2015 07:41 pm (UTC)
Looks like we're ticking off all fanfic tropes in this season. Next time I want a cat. Or two. Ruddy Abyssinian and brown Maine Coon, pretty please. :)

Also, in 'Bad Boys' I was of opinion that Dylan Everett was the worst young Dean ever (still am, about that episode). But this time, he made the best young Dean ever. Really god job, in actorship terms (though it didn't hurt that his look - which was the biggest fail that previous time - was much better now, too). This time I really believed I'm looking at Dean there.
8th-Feb-2015 03:42 am (UTC)
Dylan was fantastic. He really nailed older Dean - he was a joy to watch. The whole episode was fun to watch actually. I just didn't have a lot to add in terms of doing a review - and actually, there's a lot of great reactions/reviews out there.

And we sure are seeing some great fanfic tropes! Good to see the writers tap into the wealth of material that's out there…;)
8th-Feb-2015 06:42 pm (UTC)
I always browse your comments page after an episode, and each time I tell myself that I'm not going to comment because I have only bad things to say, which are never pleasurable to read, but then I get caught up and so...

I have loved all the seasons from 1 to 7, outwith the occasional episode.
I have never been one of those who thinks the show should have ended with Swan Song. I hated that Sam had to take the punishment for errors and bad choices that were not all his, so I was really happy that the show continued on and he got out of the Cage.

But from the moment Carver took over, the show changed completely.
I loathed season eight from the first ten minutes it aired, with the ridiculous 'Sam not looking for Dean fiasco', but I will admit there were a couple of good episodes, the Mol one and the Golem one, to name two.

Funny how you think something has hit rock bottom just to find out that the bottom was false and things get even worse. For me season nine was worse than eight, just as ten is worse than nine.
It's because I love Sam and Dean that I can't stand to see how their complex and charismatic personalities have been completely trashed by Carver and his talentless writers.
The writing is shallow and puerile, the characters of Sam and Dean have lost all the depth they used to have and have been reduced to Scoobie-Doo cartoonish figures.

The brother touching, the shirt-fisting, the shoulder bumps, the eye-communication etc., have been either eliminated or toned right down, and though these things may seem of no importance they were integral parts of the brothers' characters.

I hate what Carver has done to this show.
His dislike of his two lead characters is palpable. He couldn't give two figs about Sam and Dean.
When he is forced to give us a 'brother' episode it's done shoddily without any care, causing the Winchesters to look silly and incapable, and when the brothers are separated, which is most of the time, they are only useful to play off against Carver's preferred 'monster' and guest characters, and to keep the core audience of brother fans tuning in.

Even TPTB must have a low appreciation of Carver and co, as Pedowitz practically called them out on their incapability of coming up with a decent spin-off. "We'll see if the writers can give us something we can use!" I believe he said.

The most terrible thing of all for me is that the show could still be great.
The J's ,who were, are and will always be the heart and soul of the show are still there.
All that is necessary to bring the show back to its heyday is good writing, a scary villain, hard rock, urban legends and gritty lighting, but unfortunately Carver writes as badly as he speaks, one can understand neither.
So very sorry for the negative rant. :(
9th-Feb-2015 12:56 pm (UTC)
Hi there!

Thanks for dropping in. Never worry about being negative (even when I'm positive). I love hearing different points of view. :)

I hated that Sam had to take the punishment for errors and bad choices that were not all his,

It never sat well with me either. I hated the idea that it could end with them separate in such a bad way. Sam rotting in Lucifer's cage is horrible - especially for someone like Sam who ended up there essentially because Dean brought him back from the dead in S2. Dean never gets called out on the choices he makes for Sam, choices that later effect Sam greatly. It's an area of their relationship that I find both intriguing and highly frustrating. S9 brought that to a major head with Dean making a choice for Sam - resulting in him being used to kill someone. I had very high hopes that S9 was finally going to address that.

but I will admit there were a couple of good episodes, the Mol one and the Golem one, to name two.

I agree. A couple of my faves from that season too. First half was absolutely terrible. :(

The writing is shallow and puerile, the characters of Sam and Dean have lost all the depth they used to have and have been reduced to Scoobie-Doo cartoonish figures.

*nods*

Whereas I am enjoying S10 A LOT more than S9 and S8, it feels false because nothing from the last 2 seasons has been addressed. Everything Sam has endured has been skipped over and it's just so damn frustrating. For me (now), I "see" everything they are trying to do (especially with all the anvils) and it means the magic is lost.

"We'll see if the writers can give us something we can use!" I believe he said.

Ha, yes. Bloodlines was a farce (in terms of being a spin off for Supernatural) - it made it look they completely missed the point of why we watch SPN and why it's sooooo popular with fans.

All that is necessary to bring the show back to its heyday is good writing, a scary villain, hard rock, urban legends and gritty lighting

It would be amazing if they could go back there. I accept that the show has had to change though. The Js need/want more time off and to do that they've had to make it more ensemble. It doesn't excuse them for writing story lines that they don't resolve, or writing the brothers out of character. They could have explored all those things they started to (Sam not looking, Dean in Purgatory, the failed trails, Sam's autonomy, Dean's choices etc) and it might have been reeeeally interesting.

But alas. As many have said here, it's easier to lower expectations and watch for the pretty (which, I have been trying to do now for ages. I just feel so sad sometimes for what it could have been).

So very sorry for the negative rant. :(

Never apologise! And I came back with lots more negative stuff :/


Edited at 2015-02-09 01:09 pm (UTC)
8th-Feb-2015 08:41 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry you've been robbed of the joy of posting your reactions, and yes, please, if you can bear it, I'd love if you kept posting the polls. This is the one place I feel I can come and get a spectrum of reasonably articulated opinion. I've gotten to the point that I'm sort of numb after an ep. If I'm not suffering rage blackout, I'm kind of surprised, and it helps to read what other people thought. I'm aware discussion takes place elsewhere, it's just a range of intelligence, perception, wit, and affection for the characters in comments in your journal here, and that's a vanishingly rare combination.
9th-Feb-2015 01:21 pm (UTC)
Hi. Thank you so much for your lovely remark. The comments are always interesting and respectful. ( I hope that will still happen actually). I would like to keep doing the polls (and if I feel like I have some squeeing to do, I will!).

it's just a range of intelligence, perception, wit, and affection for the characters in comments in your journal here, and that's a vanishingly rare combination.

Thank you. :) And I think it is disappearing. People are worried about saying stuff about the show on some sites for fear of trolls and hate. I've seen some comments in some places and they can be pretty awful. I'm very fortunate that in the years I have been posting reviews the comments have been passionate but respectful - and always interesting.

Thanks so much for dropping by. I hope that people will still feel as though they can comment on the episode if they want to. :)
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