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10.22 poll and, a different approach.. 
14th-May-2015 09:48 pm
Purgatory curious!face Dean
Poll #2011057 10.22 episode reaction

I thought 10.22 was:

Awesome! Intense and everything I expected from the penultimate episode.
Pretty good! The great stuff overshadowed the not so great stuff.
Ok. Not everything I hoped for, but still not entirely bad.
*meh* Aside from one or two moments, I was unimpressed.
Nope. Nope. Haven't we been here before?! Time to change the record. :(

This might not work, but I'm keen to try it. I have a heap of thoughts about this episode. So many I'm not really sure where to start. So, instead of writing it all down, how about you share what you thought and we can chat about it? OR ask me a specific question and I'll answer it. That way the conversation will become the episode reaction. If that makes any sense (if not, I'll write something up later…*g*).

I adore talking about the show and accept the individual responses to it. I won't harsh your squee, nor will I spew rainbows over your discontent. At the moment I'm all over the damn place about the episode. I could squee and I could bitch. I saw brilliance and I saw major fail. I'm just…what is this show?! How dare you make me care so much when I see through your contrivance.

In other words…I need to talk!
14th-May-2015 01:57 pm (UTC)
Well, I watched it fighting a nasty case of bronchitis and I have been keeping myself entertained by watching past seasons of Supernatural so I have a feeling that all colored my response going in.

I knew Dean was due to go off the deep end and that the boys would be at odds.

*I just don't get why Sam went in to kill Crowley just armed with what Rowena gave him. Why would he trust her hex bag? I missed Sam being smarter on that one.

*Why did Cas go down so easy and almost end up killed? He has his grace back and I remember him with stolen grace being able to grab demon Dean at the beginning of the season to save Sam. Is there something I'm missing on that?

I told my watching partner, it makes me want to write my own ending where Cas goes to Heaven to fetch Bobby so he can help co-ordinate a plan to save the Idgits!

That is probably the watching past seasons talking right there.

Didn't hate it but was disappointed at many parts of it.
14th-May-2015 02:33 pm (UTC)
*I just don't get why Sam went in to kill Crowley just armed with what Rowena gave him. Why would he trust her hex bag? I missed Sam being smarter on that one.

Yeah, good question. I pondered this also. My thinking is Sam didn't know how to kill Crowley. He is the King of Hell after all. He knows Rowena really wanted him dead so assumed her hex would work. Sam doesn't have anything in his arsenal to kill Crowley (that knife wouldn't have either I don't think).

*Why did Cas go down so easy and almost end up killed?

This is the biggest problem I have with the episode. How did MoC!Dean beat and angel And also - why wasn't Cas called to try and save Charlie once the boys found her? How did he not know everything that was going on? I can only assume he's more "human" than he's ever been. On twitter, someone suggested he has no power because he's cut off from heaven. To be honest, I have no idea. I don't why they gave Cas his juice and now he can't use it. He could hold demon!Dean but not MoC!Dean? My "fanon" is that he didn't want to hurt Dean AND he felt he need the beat down because he failed Charlie (much like Sam felt he deserved Dean's wrath at the funeral).

it makes me want to write my own ending where Cas goes to Heaven to fetch Bobby so he can help co-ordinate a plan to save the Idgits!

Oh please!!! These idjits need saving! From themselves! :(( (and yes, yes, do write something!)

That is probably the watching past seasons talking right there.

Yeah, hard that. The boys have never been so hateful toward each other as they have been these last 3 seasons. Carver likes his drama!

Edited at 2015-05-14 02:33 pm (UTC)
14th-May-2015 02:03 pm (UTC)
I just don't care about any of them right now. They are all awful people. At least Crowley is vaguely interesting again.

Which is sad, because Pedowitz at the Upfronts this morning pretty much guaranteed this show will only end when J2 don't need money for the #boathouse anymore lol
14th-May-2015 02:42 pm (UTC)
Just such awful people. It makes me remember that I like it when they rise above the awful people they hunt, not become them. But this was about becoming the monster right?

because Pedowitz at the Upfronts this morning pretty much guaranteed this show will only end when J2

Oh good. I'm glad you mentioned that here. I saw it on twitter, then couldn't find it again to comment (yeah, I'm that inept). So, the Js run this show? As in, they'll decide when this is over? As far as I can see that will be…never! Surely show will have run its course by - if not the next season, surely the one after? I mean, how many times can we end with Sam or Dean dying?!

(though I like that Pedowitz is so supportive. Is there actually money in this show now though?).

Hmmm, so many question marks...
14th-May-2015 02:14 pm (UTC)
I could squee and I could bitch. I saw brilliance and I saw major fail. I'm just…what is this show?!

This is me right now.I liked a few things, but overall I hate the storyline and have all season. I am also very disappointed in the writers, because I know they can do better than this.

But I am here for the duration, however long it lasts. However disappointed and angry I get.

Because I remember what was and AUs fix it all. I just wish it didn't have to be fixed, that's all.

Wow, got longwinded. Sorry.
14th-May-2015 03:13 pm (UTC)
I am also very disappointed in the writers, because I know they can do better than this.

But they don't have to? Ok, cynical I know, but I think they know they have a dedicated fan base that will stick by because these characters have latched onto out hearts and just won't let go.

Wow, got longwinded. Sorry.

Oh hun, you really didn't. You should see the ep reaction I started writing for this ep. 10 paragraphs in and I thought - this will never end! So, I hear ya. They continue to kill us by tearing apart the very thing we watch this show for. We know the boys will be back together, but each time they get back there's added baggage that's surely got to get to heavy to carry one day. :(

Saving grace? We know we have another 23 eps ahead and most of them will be them working side by side together. :)
14th-May-2015 02:19 pm (UTC)
I ended up more satisfied than I've felt in a while! Dean's rampage reminded me of that classic moment in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" when Indy pulls out the gun and shoots the guy, like, "F*** this, it's time to move on." The Stynes were clichéd, annoying, time-wasting bad guys, and I was practically whooping at the screen as Dean coldly and efficiently got rid of them one by one.

I have yet to understand why a battle between angels, or between an angel and a human, is a FIST FIGHT, so my response to the Dean-Cas smackdown was, "Whatever."

Sam is an idiot. He reminds me of all the overeducated people I've worked with over the years who can't figure out how to hit the green button on the copier to make a copy.

I would LOVE to see Crowley go Full Evil. The actor's got the chops for it - let's put him to work, and give the boys a fully layered, worthy adversary.
14th-May-2015 03:03 pm (UTC)
I did enjoy seeing the Stynes just owed down. "They're like gods in this town." "I kill gods." BAM!!!!!

ETA: I LOVED seeing Crowley "hulk out" at the end!! that little red mist coming from his eyes!!! YEAH!

Edited at 2015-05-14 03:04 pm (UTC)
14th-May-2015 02:26 pm (UTC)
I watched three eps in a row, which I actually think helped improve the coherency of the whole thing. And I actually watched! Not watch...ff....watch...and so on. I thought all three episodes were....pretty good. Fine. Not as good as our best certainly, but much better than our worst. (And I completely agree with you about the Claire episode - best episode of that story arc by far)

As for this one....if I am working under the assumption that Dean was under the influence of the mark when he made the comment to Sam about wishing Sam was dead, then I think the vast majority of the episode works. If this is the new Dean, then I will feel very differently.

Because it is a law of the universe that Dean does NOT want Sam dead.

Just saying. :)
15th-May-2015 01:12 pm (UTC)
Dean was absolutely under the influence of the Mark. Totally. For a man who has done pretty questionable things to save Sam, this is not the man who'd wish he was dead. I think it was the biggest indication that he was not himself in anyway.

I also love the way the flash back highlighted Dean's hypocrisy. We saw him apologising to Charlie for beating her up. Something that was out of his control and here he was telling Sam he could not say sorry - for something that was ultimately out of his control. It was a nice and subtle way of showing us that Dean is not thinking clearly (though, um, I probably have more thinky about this - namely about Dean stopping Sam from grieving a few times now - John, Kevin and now Charlie - but I think that's much deeper than I think show is deserving atm…;D).

I enjoyed the intensity of it all. There were some layers of interesting character notes (Sam saying that he's been "out there messed up, scared and alone" makes me ponder when exactly that's been. Sam seems to cope being alone much more than Dean does. And Dean's way of saving Sam is bringing him back with massive consequences to not only the world but mostly to Sam. It's kind of fascinating, and Dean continues to be very hypocritical about what he can do and what Sam can do. I think Show is finally showing that).
14th-May-2015 03:06 pm (UTC)
Pretty sure the Dean who admitted he'd rather have Sam burning on the pyre, instead of Charlie, is the MOC influenced Dean, but how sad is it that we're not sure? I honestly feel Dean is holding so much resentment toward Sam, that a part of him really does feel that way.

I want to see Sam succeed in everything he does, but I was relieved when he (Rowena) failed to kill Crowley. I felt so conflicted during that scene.

I've been holding out heaps of hope that Sam will finally be the one to save Dean, and I still posses a little of that hope, but with only one more episode to go this season, I'm now wondering if the MOC story is going to continue into next season, especially now that the Stynes are out of the picture... not really sure how I feel about that, except that I'm growing weary of this Dean, so I guess that means I'm ready for a change.

Overall I enjoyed the episode, and I look forward to checking back later to see the conversation going on here... this kind of 'review' is a great idea.

15th-May-2015 01:24 pm (UTC)
but how sad is it that we're not sure?

I actually had no doubt. I think that's why I coped with this episode much better than I thought I would. When I saw the spoilers I wasn't sure, but after seeing it, it really became obvious. The mark has well and truly taken over and Sam bore the brunt of it in those first scenes. The sad thing for me was Sam acting like he deserved Dean's wrath - even though he knows it wasn't actually Dean talking.

I felt so conflicted during that scene.

I was too. I actually wanted Sam to kill Crowley (it's been a long time coming) but when he didn't and Crowley returned to full on evil, I was happy about it. I've never understood why the boys have not tried to kill Crowley before (especially after he killed Sarah) so I was happy to finally see an attempt (and Sam was awesome in that scene!).

I hope the MoC concludes this season (or changes direction at least). I'm not sure the Stynes are out of the picture though? Didn't they mention there were heaps of them? I'm thinking revenge is on the way maybe? I would be cool with that. I don't mind them as a "big bad".

I enjoyed the episode, but I think it had some problems. And it's always hard to watch the brothers at massive odds. Though with Dean not Dean is makes it easier. SO much better than last season's "at odds". That was the worse (imho)

14th-May-2015 03:23 pm (UTC)
Castiel will allow himself to be destroyed before he ever EVER steps up and stops Dean going full on off the reservation!

Sam's breaking my heart, quite literally, but finally we get to see that he IS capable and WILLING to save Dean. No more Sammy ney saying thank goodness!

I did actually enjoy it, quite a bit! And next week is scaring the holy hell out of me.
15th-May-2015 01:38 pm (UTC)
Castiel will allow himself to be destroyed before he ever EVER steps up and stops Dean going full on off the reservation!

Meaning he'd let Dean go off the reservation without using his angel powers? If so, I wonder why? I thought maybe it was maybe Cas didn't want to hurt Dean (and felt he deserved the beating after Charlie) but if Cas would rather be destroyed over saving Dean then that's interesting…

but finally we get to see that he IS capable and WILLING to save Dean. No more Sammy ney saying thank goodness!

Hee, well. I have rather major thinky about this. I think we've always seen and known that Sam would do anything for Dean. He's always been willing and definitely capable. For me, I saw strength in him saying that he WOULDN'T cross certain lines to save Dean last season. I actually thought Sam was seeing the devastation they cause when they continue to sacrifice themselves, others and the world to save each other. But, it seems not. I do love their crazy, ridiculous love but at the moment everyone is telling Sam what he already worked out last season (lying is bad!!!), so now we have Sam being the only one apparently not seeing it. Dean now "gets" it and has been trying to convince Sam, but in some sort of ironic way Sam now HAS to save Dean in order to save the world. Pretty screwy stuff!! (it's the part I really love about the show…*g*). Sam actually has no real option now (whereas Dean actually did have options when he brought Sam back from the dead) - if he doesn't stop Dean many innocent people could suffer.

It will be interesting to see what Sam lets loose into the world when he casts a spell to save Dean. If it means that he does something to Dean that he knows he'll hate (like when he let Sam be possessed) then they'll be making an awesome statement. Not sure it will go there, but I'll be impressed if it does…:)

(sorry, that was long winded. Said stuff that I was going to say in my review…;D)

14th-May-2015 03:49 pm (UTC)
Got 6 minutes in, turned it off, went out, haven't seen the rest yet, not sure if I even want to.
14th-May-2015 03:55 pm (UTC)
I saw your post hun. xx Um, I'd suggest the rest if you can, as those 6 minutes are really just Dean not being Dean. This ep is such a mixed bag. No one comes off as "nice". It's all darkness and death. Jensen is a thing to behold though. His performance as "other" is worth watching. There's something about this no-nonsense, ruthless Dean that's interesting. But it's not Dean, so it's like watching a monster that they'll have to do something with sooner rather than later. More sinister than Demon!Dean. I suppose they've been heading here all season. Hopefully they'll put the is horrid Dean behind them once he's cured.
14th-May-2015 04:02 pm (UTC)
This was my reaction after ep @@...!!!!

Im gonna rewatch tonight to get a better feel because SOooo much happened. things I loved:
-Dean slaughtering that entire clan with nary a sweat!
-Crowley!! you actually scared me with Dem red eyes yo! Finally the King of Hell is back!
-Sammy, you poor schmuck, I love you but your really off your game this season. Although I LOVED his emoting to Cas about how much he owes his brother because ...yeah. but what I mean is that he really shouldnt let Rowena yank his chain, he could really put a hurt on her IF he wanted to. just saying..maybe he needs to get a little more serious about what he wants her to do?
-The threat to he bunker! OMG I was a ball of tense during that scene. I think I love the bunker more than the Impala and they can never lose their home!
-Dean is coming home! ...talk about ominous, never have I heard those words sound so dam scary.
Show is still got me this emotional after 10 years then that is something...was it perfect? no, but again, after 10 years and we are all still invested? that's incredible, IMO. Also, like somebody else mentioned, I had a hard time "liking" either of the boys this ep, but I dont think we are necessarily supposed to like them right now. We are supposed to feel their pain and anguish and how external forces have forged/changed them....at least thats what I have taken away from it. Couldnt help but reminisce about how far they have come since season 1 when they were babies. Isnt that real life though? we are NOT the same people we were 10 years ago either and none of us have gone through the trauma these boys have, so show is realistic in that...
Things I did NOT like:
-Dean speech to Sam about how it should be him on the pyre. (cries--I refuse to believe that was the real Dean btw)
-The Cas beat down, not that I have a prob with Dean beating Cas but it was very convenient that he could.
-the Sammy replacement anvil. Show your as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face..lol. I know a lot of people are bemoaning his death, but honestly, I dont know that I would have let him go either...conflicted.

Is it wed yet?

Edited at 2015-05-14 04:05 pm (UTC)
15th-May-2015 02:03 pm (UTC)
*nods* I agree with much of this! There were some great, intense moments.

The bunker under threat was nerve wrecking. Seeing those books and Dean's belongings about to burn! ARCK!

The Cas beat down didn't make much sense to me. Cas, an angel of the lord, should have easily bested moc!Dean. I have to assume that Cas either isn't full power or he didn't want to hurt Dean.

Sam has been all over the place this season - mostly because they just haven't really known what to do with him. This has been about Dean's story and journey mostly, so what Sam is doing hasn't been the main focus (though good to see him actually do something in the last few eps *g*).

The Sammy replacement anvil was, um…curious. Were we supposed to think that Dean could kill Sam this easily? That Sam actually saw Dean and John as monsters? I think it showed the deep resentment that Dean (probably) still feels about Sam. Normal Dean is well over it, but whenever Dean is "other" he still thinks of Sam as a monster and a burden. It's sad, but I also think it's been consistent for Dean throughout the series. Dean clearly loves Sam (and would never say what he did at the funeral), but I think there's still some deep issues he harbours against Sam. :((

I'm looking forward to the next ep!

14th-May-2015 04:27 pm (UTC)
Even though I knew nothing was going to happen to Sam in this ep, I was still scared when Crowley was standing over him, ready to snap his fingers. Crowley hasn't been scary for a couple of years now, but there was so much quiet menace in that moment, it had my heart in my throat.

I'm glad for your poll, because I'd been thinking from Twitter that I was the only one who thought this episode wasn't half bad. Or at least, it had some great moments, and the rest was the sloppy writing that I've sadly come to expect from S10. :/
14th-May-2015 08:40 pm (UTC)
Yes yes, me too! I want demons to be formidable and scary, not vaguely sarcastic and avuncular - and at last, Crowley actually frightened me!
14th-May-2015 05:10 pm (UTC)
I really don't know which box to tick in the poll... perhaps all of them this time? Urgh. Idk. *reads comments*
15th-May-2015 02:12 pm (UTC)
Thats how I feel! I can't click either! The comments are interesting (as usual! *g*)
14th-May-2015 05:12 pm (UTC)
Well, this has never happened before. I didn't even answer your poll because I don't know *how* to answer it.

The episode was AWFUL.
And I LOVED it.
But so much of it was horribly terrific.

Is that how you feel? It's how I feel. (Also, Dean looks really great being Evil. Cas is a bleeder, not a bruiser. Good to know after all this time. Crowley might be terrifying in S11. Sam needs to eat a sandwich.)

ETA: I just read thru your comments, and THANK GOD it isn't just me! I couldn't figure out WHAT was going on with Castiel. He's totally OOC re powers, and even if he allowed Dean to beat him down, I can't buy that he'd allow Dean to pull an angel sword on him. *smh*

Edited at 2015-05-14 05:59 pm (UTC)
15th-May-2015 01:17 am (UTC)

The episode was AWFUL.

And I LOVED it.


But so much of it was horribly terrific.


Hahahahaha. This is TOTALLY a reflection of how I feel.

17th-May-2015 09:55 am (UTC)

I really sympathize with Sam, because what choice does he have really?

Exactly! He's been given no choices and even though he knows the consequences will be bad he knows that it's only what Dean would do to save him. He's between a rock and a hard place.

but this is something that has continued on since the beginning of the season and Dean is under the influence of the moc.

I agree! Dean was clearly under the influence at the funeral - and I think through much of the season. It's messed so much with both of them.

I agree it feels more organic this season. It's been a slow burn. I haven't been thrilled with Sam's lack of voice or action (until now), but it's good to see them both involved as we near the finale. It still surprises me how much blame Sam still gets for last season - and now he's being blamed for making a "bad" decision - it just seems he can't win, no matter what he does. I often think this is part of his journey - fighting against all odds, failing, but keeping on going. Man, I hope he has some success in the finale (and that Dean realises what he's put Sam through. Taking on the Mark was always going to mess with Sam…).

I think we're going to need nerves of steel for the finale!

14th-May-2015 06:41 pm (UTC)
I loved everything about this one. It was incredibly intense and painful, and really had me at the edge of my seat. Can't wait for the finale.
15th-May-2015 02:19 pm (UTC)
yay! Great to hear it! It was most definitely intense!!
14th-May-2015 08:00 pm (UTC)
my takeaway from this episode- Sam was fucked over and set up by Rowena to fail.
Dean is still a dictorial a-hole. i hated those those quotes from him to Sam-*Shut up,you got her killed, you dont get to apologize, it should be you up there not her* i dont care if he was under the influence of the mark, those are harsh words that hurt Sam. i didnt understand the last 5 mins to ending

Edited at 2015-05-14 08:04 pm (UTC)
15th-May-2015 02:24 pm (UTC)
Sam was fucked over and set up by Rowena to fail.

Hmmm, interesting. That wasn't my take at all. I think Rowena definitely though the hex bag would take him out. Though one has to wonder why she wouldn't have done this earlier. She would have had a chance I'm sure. So, yeah. Maybe she did set Sam up (though not sure what her end game would be because she'd be left in the warehouse and she'd also know she'd have Crowley after her).

MoC!Dean definitely brings out the very worse aspects of Dean. He is definitely dictatorial at times (and it's caused a few issues between them), but being possessed like this makes it so much worse!

And those words were supposed to hurt Sam. Dean is out for blood and I'm afraid Sam is in the firing line (which is why I never understood why he wasn't desperate to find a cure!).

14th-May-2015 08:37 pm (UTC)
Gah! I just wrote a nicely considered episode reaction and LJ swallowed it and refuse to post it. Dammit!!

Trying again…

I found this one stomach churning and very tense. Both our boys are disintegrating, and it’s hard to watch that happen. It was a very violent episode all round, clearly aimed at demonstrating how far gone Dean is already. Got to admit, I never saw the kid Steyn as being a young Sam parallel – to me he was there as someone you were intended to feel sympathy for amongst a bunch of human monsters, simply so that we could be suitably shocked when Dean kills him too. We know he’s a good lad, Dean doesn’t, but it’s still horrible to have our hero do something as despicable as killing a child.

Plus I found Crowley genuinely intimidating for the first time ever. His transformation was really quite scary, and for a few seconds I actually thought he might kill, or at least severely harm Sam. So kudos to Mark for that. This MoC Dean even though ostensibly still human is also far more frightening than the Demon version from the early season, and, Jensen’s glorious hotness aside when he’s being badass, I was happy to see that being followed through. The Mark of Cain is seriously bad mojo, and up until now we’ve only really had hints and snippets to indicate just how bad things are going to get if nothing is done to stop it. I am now wondering if next season will be MoC Dean on the rampage, possibly in cahoots with Crowley, and Sam and Cas trying to rein him in/kill him.

I thought Cas was holding back in the beating scene – from a lingering sense of guilt for Charlie and possibly for every time he’s failed Dean, but also because he didn’t want to harm Dean. I really liked the speech about Cas being the only one left to witness Dean’s ultimate fall – I think that sense of loneliness from being an ageless being that Cas used to carry around has been lost over the seasons, and I liked to see that being acknowledged again.

I also wondered whether they were drawing a parallel in that beating scene with the two other occasions Castiel has beaten Dean to a pulp. Seeing as how they do like their mirror scenes.

So that’s my long winded way of saying – I liked this one. It made me feel we are getting somewhere – not that I’m going to like the destination, but that it will at least have importance and impact.

17th-May-2015 12:27 pm (UTC)
Gah! I just wrote a nicely considered episode reaction and LJ swallowed it and refuse to post it. Dammit!!

I hate that! For a while now I copy every thing I write on LJ before I post it. It has saved me so many times. It's now habit… :)

Thanks for re-doing your comments though. <3

I agree it was a very intense episode and at times, hard to watch. I enjoyed the intensity and I was on the edge of my seat quite a bit.

I never saw the kid Steyn as being a young Sam parallel.

I think I did as soon as he was seen as an outsider, and also the youngest in the family. He wanted out and wasn't able to get out. As the show often parallels characters, I think he represented the "innocent" person before he followed his destiny. He might not have represented Sam exactly (and actually I think Dabb might not have totally made that connection), but I think there's some small similarities. Mostly, I think he was there to show us that Dean crossed a line. He saw him with the "blood" in him and therefore potentially a monster. It's something Dean has sometimes tussled with. Now, with the Mark, there's no doubt for him. It's so interesting.

Plus I found Crowley genuinely intimidating for the first time ever.

Wasn't it glorious!? Finally! And not through sheer violence, but through menace and threat. I was totally surprised by that and it became one of my favourite parts in the ep. (who would have thought!! *g*).

I think there are some good reasons why Cas held back during the beating (feeling he deserved it is my fave), but I would love them to have given us more hints about what was happening there. Cas could have "held" Dean and bay and told him to get his act together. I would love to see Cas be firm with Dean and say "you're fucking this up!" He keeps letting Dean get away with all sorts of stuff - including what he did last season...(and that may well be deliberate and part of Cas's character. Oooh, first time I've ever really contemplated this. Cas has so much admiration of human Dean that he doesn't feel like he can call him out on his behaviour).

I also wondered whether they were drawing a parallel in that beating scene with the two other occasions Castiel has beaten Dean to a pulp. Seeing as how they do like their mirror scenes.

From what I've seen this is definitely what the D/C part of fandom think. It didn't cross my mind, but yes, it probably was a mirror. Cas has beaten on Dean a couple of times, so I think it was Cas's turn to concede.

Thanks for your thoughts! They've really given me some new ideas. <33
14th-May-2015 09:08 pm (UTC)
I think I'm the only person in fandom who enjoys watching Sam and Dean at odds. Especially Dean being such an utter shit to his brother at Charlie's pyre. That made it count for something, not just a bitchy/pissed off remark, and Sam was properly hurt.

I think I'm also the only person who doesn't find homicidal maniac Dean hot. Scary as fuck, which is fine by me. When he took out the entire Styne clan, I was a happy camper. Bunch of badly written/acted douchebags. The scene between Dean and Cy might have been an anvil, but it was a cool anvil. Dean kills a kid in cold blood! Way cool!

Why are people complaining that Sam doesn't have a voice? He's opening up and talking about things on the show that go back years. He's talking about his time on demon blood when he says he's been alone and scared and messed up, that was my take. When he snaps at Crowley that Crowley is a monster and has killed people Sam loved, that's also reaching back at least to S8. It seems to me that Sam has been filling in a lot of blanks, both for himself and the show's history.

My major problem was that the Stynes kicked down the door of the "impenetrable" bunker that you can only open with a magical key. Still, it was worth it for that shot of Dean standing in the doorway with dead eyes and covered with blood.
14th-May-2015 10:45 pm (UTC)
YES! I had a problem with that. What about the secrecy of the door, its impenetrability, the wards, whatever - and boom they're in??? Oh I was so sad if that stuff was going to get brunt though, especially Dean's tattered family pic.
14th-May-2015 09:56 pm (UTC)
I loved this episode. It was dark, intense, unforgiving, brutal, heartbreaking and oh so gripping. I want this nail-biting, gut churning pace to continue all the way until the end of the season.

Yes, this episode wasn't without its flaws, but I think I just enjoyed it too much to quibble. I mean savage Dean does things to me, determined and caught between a rock and a hard place Sam breaks my heart, and I enjoyed the threat that came with the Stynes (but they're not all gone, right?), Rowena is growing on me plus I enjoy seeing her interact with Sam, bad ass Crowley is back and I'm thrilled, and there was a tiny second where I feared for Cas.

Hit me season finale, and hit me good and hard!!! ;)
17th-May-2015 01:00 pm (UTC)
haha! Savage Dean does things to me too! I just love the no nonsense stuff. I mean, I love it when he's real Dean too (not too wibbly, but caring and badass).

Oh I think we're going to be well and truly HIT! Arck!
15th-May-2015 02:51 am (UTC)
It probably says something about me that the moment that had me the most tense out of the whole episode was when Eldon was holding a match near the piled up books in the bunker. I was chanting "don't you dare" at my laptop! NO BURNING BOOKS!

I found this episode really frustrating because there were things I enjoyed:

1. Dean wiping out the Styne empire (I hope)
2. Dean deadpan telling the cop that he kills gods
3. Crowley having had just about enough of the Winchester guilt trips and returning to full demon stature
4. Cas trying to do for Dean what Dean wasn't able to do for him - keep him from becoming a monster
5. Sam's determination that he's going to save his brother from a mess he created himself - which feels like a callback to S3, when it also resulted in Sam consorting with unsavory/untrustworthy characters.

Things that resulted in the WTF face?

1. How were the Stynes able to get into the bunker so easily? According to S7, the absolutely-only way in was with the one special key, yet it's been like Grand Central Station in and out lately.
2. The pyre scene. As I had been afraid after last week, Charlie's death was merely a catalyst for more manpain and angst between the brothers. I know I'm watching a show that specialized in that, and that shouldn't be a surprise, but it still bugged me lots.
3. The fistfight, which I know bugged a lot of people. It made sense to me in Season 5, when Cas gives Dean a physical beatdown over giving in to Michael, because I got the impression he could have snuffed Dean out like a candle almost by accident using his powers. He and Uriel were supposedly able to wipe out a whole town between the two of them in The Great Pumpkin, after all. So Dean beating the crap out of him here doesn't make sense to me. Jimmy's body is just a vessel, so Dean headbutting him in the nose shouldn't have had enough impact to get Cas to release him, even if Cas is underpowered. He was cut off from Heaven and hauled the boys all the way back to 1978 in S5, after all.
4. The fact that while watching the penultimate ep that I wasn't really as worried about what was going to happen to any of the main four as I was about the Impala's poor, busted taillights.
5. We keep hearing about how Rowena is this super-powered witch, but with the exception of the ep that introduced her, I feel like all we've had of that is telling rather than showing. There hasn't bee anything that actually seemed impressive, and all she does here is snark at Cas and talk on the phone.

So, I suppose I could say I'm ambivalent going into the finale? I want to continue loving these characters and this show, but the writers are currently testing my patience and suspension of...not disbelief, but my willingness to ignore gaps it feels like I could drive a truck through, I guess. And I really need to start posting these tl;dr things in my own journal!
17th-May-2015 01:09 pm (UTC)
So here's the thing…You are in my brain! This…all this. I was reading this and thought "see, that's what I needed to write in my review!". All the positive and all those issues too. I expect the episodes to have holes now, but sometimes I just wish I could watch an ep and not have fall into any!

Cas trying to do for Dean what Dean wasn't able to do for him - keep him from becoming a monster

That's nice! I have been trying to figure out what the hell has been going on between them. I just wish Cas tried a bit harder, or something….

Thanks so much for this!! It's pretty much everything I was feeling too. I love that you posted it here, so never feel it's tl:dr… xx

15th-May-2015 03:22 am (UTC)
Honestly? Dean freaked me out in this episode. From the way he killed that kid to the cold "it should be you up there" to Sam when they were burning Charlie's body. And I had the awful feeling that his killing the kid could be foreshadowing that he'd do the same to Sam in the finale. I really hope that I'm wrong though.

Maybe I'm just super emotional now and I'll change my mind later, but if he kills Sam or Sam dies some other way, I don't think I want to watch next season. I don't really want to see them trying to struggle with the question of how they'll get Sam back (and how many episodes it will take/how many the brothers will be separated) and frankly I'm tired of the whole "Yay, he's back but what's wrong with him?" meme.

Sorry I'm so negative. I've been reading so many fans' speculations about how he'll die & it's just making me think it's a given. :P
17th-May-2015 01:16 pm (UTC)
Dean was freaky and that was possibly the best thing about the episode. I thought Jensen really owned that ep!

If Dean kills sam (or Sam volunteers his life), or *guh* Sam kills Dean (after everything from this week), I don;t think I will cope. AT all!

So very dark… (but we'll band together and see it through together!).
15th-May-2015 07:09 am (UTC)
Still haven't watched the episode yet

After getting angry mid way whilst I watching ep21 and their blatant and not so subtle advertising of the new microsoft surface tablets by two major characters, in Episode 21 and I cannot believe that Charlie would choose Surface over a Mac (I can't even) and the advertising made me angry because it's saying in a not so nice way to the fans - god, you'll buy anything remotely connected with Supernatural, so now, lets shove this product down their throats

and ...... and what ..... do they think we are that stupid? and after Charlie sat down, there is a long lingering shot of the Surface brand name and I couldn't watch anymore!! So angry about this, if they had said "hey we signed a lurcative deal with Microsoft and you are going to be seeing their products in Supernatural Episodes" I would have been fine with that! But no! Treat us like ijits and just see how far that gets you in Fandom.

And maybe, when the finale screens, I will watch all the episodes of Season Ten together and maybe I will be able to keep my shit together long enough to make a hopefully positive review of the Season overall.

Sorry, not quite what you asked for. Feel free to delete.
18th-May-2015 12:40 pm (UTC)
The advertising for the Surface as been frustrating me also! It's so damn obvious. I accept that the show needs advertising dollars, but it's so crass the way they are doing. And I agree that Charlie would have a Mac.

10.22 was a much tighter episode than the last one. It had a couple of weak moments, but mostly it held together well (and no Surfaces that I can remember!). I might be good to watch this one, just before the finale…;)

15th-May-2015 12:09 pm (UTC)
I can;t
just watched it
not that I hated it it was just so extremely violent and triggery
did someone tell Carver he was going soft, or ask if he'd seen a boob in the wild?
What- *what*
18th-May-2015 12:42 pm (UTC)
It was pretty violent! Though, strangely, I found last week's even more violent that this one. I think this one is more noticeable because it's Dean doing the slaughtering. Last week there seemed to be more innocent people murdered.

But yeah, intense and bloody. Probably an indication for what we might be in for next ep! Argh!
15th-May-2015 12:52 pm (UTC)
It's a great thing reading all the comments here!
I liked this epi. It was intense and very very brutal and also scary at places, and I think that's wonderful. MoC!Dean was awesome. Ok, killing baddies on the Show isn't something new, but the way he killed the Stynes almost in one go, and his dead, cold eyes while on his killing spree were scary as hell. I haven't decided if the kid was supposed to be a Sam avatar or not, but Dean killing him in cold blood was really an effective way to show how far off the reservation he is. (I read on twitter that his eyes flashed black after that kill - and that's both interesting and scary!! Will have to rewatch and watch closely during that scene!) And as we already talked about on twitter, seeing Dean like that made his statement to Sam over Charlie's pyre bearable. That wasn't really Dean talking there! Sam's face, though.. Broke my heart. Dean's words had an effect on him, even though I guess he realised that it was the MoC talking there. And he went on with his plan to cure Dean nonetheless! Kick this kid and he still gets up. (OMG I love Sam so much!!..)

I loved Badass!Crowley (about time!) His eyes were oozing red, weren't they? Great effects there! A theory I read on twitter was that Rowena might have used her plan to kill him in order to turn him into a real baddie again. I think that kinda makes sense, doesn't it?

When Cas and Dean were fighting, I had a little wtf moment, too - how was it that Cas didn't use his angel mojo? But I thought that he didn't actually wanna hurt Dean, so he didn't really fight back. What you say about him maybe feeling guilty for Charlie's death and accepting the beat-down as his punishment also makes sense. (He learned from the best, after all. Who knows more about guilt than the Winchester brothers? ;P)

I didn't think much about the Stynes breaking down the Bunker door. They are/were a most dangerous and powerful occult family, after all. Why shouldn't they know stuff that enabled them to break the Bunker's protection seals?

Anyways. I can't wait for the finale now! The way this is going, looks like it's gonna be really intense!!
18th-May-2015 12:55 pm (UTC)
It's a great thing reading all the comments here!

Haven't they been great?! I always love hearing what others say. :)

*nods* to everything you say here. It was knowing that Dean wasn't Dean that made his horrible comments to Sam bearable. I mean, I hurt for Sam (I always hurt for Sam!), but he knows it's not Dean talking (he knows he would never wish him dead) and his strength to see it though is remarkable. Of course, it's probably not the "right" thing to do, but whenever have these two done the "right" thing when saving each other…;) Oh boys!

I'm both scared and excited to watch the finale! I have a feeling there will be tears (just seeing Jared on the screen may just bring a tear to my eye…), so it's going to be an emotional time.

Hang tight!! <3
15th-May-2015 06:54 pm (UTC)
Definitely interesting.

Also, an Oscar for Mark Sheppard, please. Looks like a certain character is not totally wasted after all. So he probably will get killed now...

Also, is one, just one, episode where Sam would use his brain too much to want? Sure, he couldn't know what happens when you put a trap bullet into a demon and leave his hands free. It's not like he ever seen it before... oh, wait.

Also, I loved the Indiana Jones solution of the fight, har har har. One brain, indeed. Styne shouldn't complain anyway - what you don't use, you clearly don't need, pfft.

Also, looks like finally we get some showing instead only telling in the matter of the Mark.

Also, they had a rarest of things - a chance for plot relevant stripping fanservice bare skin and they didn't use it? Especially when NOT using it looked so ridiculous??? I mean, do the Frankensteins recycle also clothing, or what?

Also, I'm sad about the boy... On the other hand, I'm not sure whether I'm more relieved or disappointed about Castiel. :P
18th-May-2015 01:10 pm (UTC)
So he probably will get killed now…

Ha, the irony of it all. Just when he looks like he might be interesting again..;)

Sure, he couldn't know what happens when you put a trap bullet into a demon and leave his hands free. It's not like he ever seen it before... oh, wait.

Yeah, tied hands would have helped - though I assume he totally believed the hex would work? Ha! I believed it was going to work. I seriously thought Sam had killed Crowley - I was both surprised and then pleased he didn't. Also, I've been much happier with Sam using his brain in the last few eps than I have for a while. I mean yeah, of course he shouldn't be taking this course of again but that's part of the Winchester way. I don;t feel that Charlie's death was his fault (aside from the way he did involve her) and I think he underestimated Crowley because of recent events. I think I underestimated Crowley! It's been so long since we've seen THIS Crowley!

I admit to being a little disappointed with Cas in the fight scene. I think he should have stopped Dean (not hurting needed) and called him on his losing his shit. In fact, I heard that in the script Cas was supposed to fight back, but Jensen and Misha thought it would be better not to play it that way. I have no idea why, as I think Cas should have at least tried to fight back. It leaves open all the questions about how powerful Dean actually is or how weak Cas is. Hmmmm, not sure really.
15th-May-2015 09:31 pm (UTC)
First, let me tell you my vote, honey; it's the "pretty good" option. Pretty good, because Andrew Dabb is one of the last remaining good writers of the Good Ole Days of Show.

And IMO, he prooved that fact again. Perhaps a little less than he did with his last episode, s10e17, "Inside Man", but in comparison to the last week's eppy...
*shudders at memory*

There are just a few things for me to complain on "The Prisoner:"

- At Charlie's hunter funeral, Dean would NEVER EVAR say such things to Sam, no sir. That's a little bit OOC, IMO.

- Sam, the good boy, did immediately what "that ginger whore" told him to do, no matter if this will work- or not. Lucky him, that Crowley still doesn't want to hurt Dean that much, so he let our dear moose walk away alive.

- Canon - or another LOL canon? - Because even in 'Super-Wiki' you can read, that the bunker is sealed with the heaviest spells the MoL could create and can only be entered with a special key. And then those Styne-douches say, "BOOM!" and came right through the front door??
SMILEY - gaah! photo SMILEY - gaah_zpsopmf4umy.gif

Continued in part II because LJ says, 'comment too long' ;( :(
19th-May-2015 10:40 am (UTC)

At Charlie's hunter funeral, Dean would NEVER EVAR say such things to Sam, no sir. That's a little bit OOC, IMO.

Yep! Totally out of character! Which means he's not Dean any more and on his path to destruction. He's stopped fighting, which is very troublesome...

Lucky him, that Crowley still doesn't want to hurt Dean that much, so he let our dear moose walk away alive.

Ahh, interesting take on it. I didn't consider that. It felt more like "power" and there to really rattle Sam. But, I do like the idea that Crowley could have saved Sam because of Dean.

Yeah - the door to the bunker is just lol canon. Sure, the Stynes are powerful, but I can't believe it would be that easy to penetrate. But...*shrugs*...of all the lol!canon we've had, I'm happy to hand wave that.
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