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curled around these images
just enough to make us dangerous
Robbie's departure and more on 11.20 
7th-May-2016 06:33 pm
4th Wall OTP
I was actually sad to hear that Robbie Thompson is leaving the show. Even though I have major issues with the last episode he wrote (which actually make some sense now in light of the news) I have always enjoyed his episodes. I thought he brought some interesting ideas and characters into the Supernatural universe. He gave us some wonderful brother moments and always found ways of telling an interesting, inventive story. Sure, he liked to fan service and I have very mixed feelings about that, but I do think he genuinely liked the show.

On that note, I want/need to say more about the last episode. With that clarification I can (hopefully) articulate things a bit better. It's still negative so please be warned.

Also, thanks to those who chatted with me about the last episode (and don't feel you need to with this! I'm mostly writing this to help me ;D). I am always appreciative that people are happy to discuss an ep, even when my reaction is completely different to theirs. I do respect that we view episodes differently.

Oops, this got quite long.

I had many gripes about 11.20 - confirming God is Chuck and the return of the amulet most notably - but the number one thing that really made me angry was Robbie inserting himself into the script and the blatant fan servicing.

With the news that this is Robbie's last script I can now fully understand (with some relief - because I didn't imagine it) why he did that. I don't think it's appropriate (at all), but with the relationship that writers have with fans on the show (and in particular Robbie) I can understand it. Robbie not only gave himself the opportunity to reflect on writing and Kripke's tenure - through Metatron and God's dialogue (much like Kripke did at the end of S5) - he also gave fandom a "gift". The amulet.

Whether he is responsible for the confirmation that Chuck is God I can't tell. Surely he couldn't bring back God without it being a major part of the season's finale (I'd love to know if this had been planned since day one of S11). Creating such a major plot point like this couldn't have been done on a mere last hurrah. Time will tell in that one (but I'm not gonna lie, I'll probably laugh if he did. The joke will definitely be on him *g*. That's one hell of a hole to dig out of).

Which brings me to fan servicing. I have very mixed feelings about writers giving fans what they ask for. I know the SPN fandom is very intense and vocal, but I hate the idea that writers (and TPTB) write stories around the fans' demands. Mainly because it dilutes any story that they have planned for the show. It removes the integrity of their own work and, quite frankly, cheapens it. It also implies that ALL fans wants the same thing - which we know isn't the case I give Robbie his due, he does try to please a broad base in the fandom (highlighted in Fan Fiction), not just one section (by why try in the first place is what I have to wonder).

That said, the very obvious fan service episodes he wrote like Baby and Fan Fiction I can accept more easily than Don't Call me Shurley. The main difference is he didn't hide the fact that the first two were "gifts" to fans. They were stand alones and could be watched outside of the mythos of the show. There was no hiding the fact of what they were. "Don't Call me Shurly" didn't do that. It was a MAJOR mytharc episode and didn't make itself obvious until the end (though I know it could be argued that it was obvious from the opening minute). It also took itself more seriously than Baby or Fan Fiction. I think if I had known beforehand that this was Robbie's goodbye script, I might have been more accepting of it. I still wouldn't have been happy, but at least I could be kind enough to think Robbie deserved his own farewell.

Why I'm miffed about the amulet's return.

This is personal (of course) but I viewed the amulet's return as pure manipulation on Robbie's part. It was inserted into the story to win fans over and give them something they have been longing to have back. I not only disliked that the amulet appearing made no sense to the story (God could have healed Sam and the town without it and He could have appeared instantly to Dean with out it leading it to Him), I also disliked the way it made it's appearance. Having it magically appear in Sam's pocket created massive meta-ish discussions on whether Sam had kept it all this time or whether God had put it in Sam's pocket. Fans were invested. (Dammit! We're invested by this stuff! Don't play with us!). Then Jim Michaels confirmed God put it in Sam's pocket (which just never seemed a question to me, but I understand fans wanted Sam yo have kept it all this time. Even me!). Then Robbie announced his departure and the answer to who had the amulet all this time was clearly "Robbie had it and was just waiting for a chance to return it". It's further confirmation that there was no consideration for where it's been all or why). No back story was created for it. It's just there. Something as important in fandom as this needed that consideration. I also think the way it was returned (via God) removes the initial connection the brothers had to it - as a gift of brotherhood from Sam to Dean. For it to continue as that symbol it should have been returned in that manner . I know that's contentious and to be honest I really don't care enough about that to be truly upset. In other words FANON! I will accept any level of fanon on it now because that's all we can do. And I know every fan will create their own meaning around it. Which, maybe that was Robbie's real parting gift.

(Though I would suggest we don't get too attached to it. If history has told us something the shows likes to take away stuff we love. /speculation).

Why Chuck being God kinda sucks:

Oh the very top of my list is that Chuck/God let Sam suffer in hell for over 100 years - to horribly abused by Michael and Lucifer. He could have prevented it, but chose not to. For whatever (fanon) reasons we can create, that's what he did. Now, at the time Chuck was written I could accept that maybe he wasn't God (I have never been able to accept that as canon anyway) and it was easier to accept what happened to Sam. Now that it's been confirmed that Chuck was "acting" the whole time (and basically playing with our boys) - well, the level of rage is off the charts. Even the argument that God gave Sam and Dean freewill doesn't wash with me because he knew they were good men at heart. He knew Sam didn't deserve this outcome. If he made the choice to restore Cas so he could restore Dean, then he inserted his own will on their outcome. He could have saved Sam. It also makes Chuck, a perviously likeable character, extremely unlikeable (and I still don't believe anyone in the Show decided Chuck was God until - well, I dunno. Probably 5.22?). And God making a one off appearance at the end of Fan Fiction? Yeah, Robbie was always heading there it looks like. It's just makes everything in the past so bloody messy.

My expectations will be SO high for the next episode that there is no way it can be satisfying. If they don't give me an acceptable reason why He doesn't immediately alleviate the suffering of people (especially children) around the world I will be simmering with anger the whole time.

Having God present in this universe is more problematic than having angels around. He can do anything. ANY.THING. So when he doesn't I will want to know why (and I am open to inventive ways of examining this, but I just don't trust they will do it. Not with the writers we have next episode. But I will hold my judgement). They have to think of inventive reasons each season why Cas can't magically fix everything. I can't imagine how they'll make God impotent. And then there will be Dean finally seeing a God he's never really believed in. And realising what he's done to them. To Sam. Let alone Sam who has prayed to him countless times. It's opens so many things that I just know won't be explored (please prove me wrong!)

Breaking the Forth Wall

This is nothing new to the show - they've broken the 4th wall a few times now. It's never something that has sit comfortably with me so it's probably not a surprise it didn't work for me this time. There are times when I've been ok with it (The French Mistake) but mostly not (in Hollywood Babylon and Monster at the End of the Book mostly ). The biggest squick for me in the episode was God singing. The line between Rob's con persona and the character he plays in the show was just too close. Every time he picked up the guitar I was out of the moment and could see right through the whole charade (which I never really want to do! I want my belief to be totally suspended). Also, Rob seems like such a lovely guy. His con persona is warm and fluffy, so I had to work extra hard to believe he's God - a character I now despise.

I know I sound like spoil brat not wanting all the lovely goodies Robbie gave us, but I suppose this gift was just not to my taste. But as I have said to many whose opinions were opposite to mine - I'm thrilled for those who loved the present. :)

Though I can thank him for giving me Dean petting Sam's hair :) Thanks Robbie! <3 (and I may thank you for the amulet's return once I see how it's going to now be used...Maybe ;D)

That all said, you'll be missed. Even if this last one was rather self indulgent your heart was in the right place.
7th-May-2016 11:57 am (UTC)
Everything you've said here is everything still making me annoyed with the episode and/or annoyed with how much I did not enjoy that episode/the chasmic cognitive dissonance between how much I did not enjoy that episode and how much we were all "supposed" to enjoy all of those little things. Nothing to add except thanks for articulating all of this here!
8th-May-2016 01:08 am (UTC)
Oh thank you. I just had to try and make sense of it a bit. I felt kinda used afterwards. And now I think I'm disappointed that it didn't work for me the way it was intended.

Oh well, with distance I will accept it more and I still hold out hope that they are going somewhere interesting with it all. :)
7th-May-2016 12:52 pm (UTC)
I agree with you on one point and disagree with you on another (and I am so thankful that you are very cool with disagreement!).

I agree on you about Chuck, and disagree about the amulet - though I suspect on my part it's more squeeing that it's back than anything! LOL!!! Dean's looked a little naked without it. I kept yelling at the TV for him to put it on LOL!!

But about Chuck, we're in complete agreement. I dislike the theology going on in the show, but I am able to view it as an AU to reality, so that helps me.

And a side note? I just want to give you massive kudos for not being one of those annoying 'disagreement = hate' people. I love you so much for that!
8th-May-2016 01:16 am (UTC)
(and I am so thankful that you are very cool with disagreement!

It's what makes the discussion so interesting. I equally like that I can rant about things I dislike about the show and people are still happy to talk with me!

Re the amulet. Once the shock of it has sunk it I am very likely to be more accepting of it. I suppose I was never one who missed it. I had my own little head canon that Sam picked it up and quietly kept it and I was happy for it to stay that way. And in fact, that's actually now canon (if we can accept Jared and Jensen's belief that Sam had it all this time).

And thank you! It's comments like those that make me feel safe to express true feelings on my journal. :)

7th-May-2016 05:19 pm (UTC)
It's funny, but I disliked that episode so completely and wholeheartedly that my next day takeaway amounts to, "I'm not leaving you, ever," and therefore I am satisfied.
8th-May-2016 01:17 am (UTC)
Yes! *heart eyes* There were some lovely moments - including that line and lots of face touching! (I hate that I haven't wallowed in those nearly enough!) Time to seek out all the gifs. :)

(haha, edit because I originally read that as YOU'RE not leaving ever! )

Edited at 2016-05-08 01:20 am (UTC)
8th-May-2016 08:00 am (UTC)
Well, if I haven't left already, the odds seem slim. :D

I watched just "I'm not leaving you, ever!" again yesterday (just that 10 seconds or so) and was struck by the total OOC-ness of Dean yelling at God to stop fucking around. Uh. Why would he not yell at Amara? That came out of absolute nowhere, as far as I was concerned. Add it to the list, I guess.
8th-May-2016 12:53 pm (UTC)
I thought he was yelling it at Amara. That was my first take on it and I'm pretty sure that was Dean/Jensen's. Up to this point Dean still doesn't believe in God (though I think he had an ep where he prayed so...*shrugs* who knows).

It was suggested to me in the other thread that God heard him and that's why he reacted (with the amulet and coming and healing them). When trying to make any sense of the amulet that can work in a fanon sense. I still can't wok out why the amulet came in to play at all - other than a) Robbie wanted to return it to fandom and b) it's going to be used in the finale.

I just don't know. So little of it made sense - but it may become clearer over the next few eps (probably not the next one - it's a Duo ep and likely to smash even more canon. Beren's after that and he might have a better take on it all. I am hoping at least).
8th-May-2016 08:24 pm (UTC)
Well, he says something like, "Stop this, you dick!" which I assume, if he was talking to Amara, he would have said "bitch" like he always does. The combination of the specific "you DICK" and him looking up I assumed meant he was talking to God. IDK. It was weird.
9th-May-2016 10:10 am (UTC)
Ah! Dammit yes. Oh man, that makes even less sense because yeah, why would he think God was doing this? Or maybe it was a general last plea to a God he thought never existed. But no because what was going on was what Amara has done before so he should have been speaking to her. No idea...
11th-May-2016 12:46 am (UTC)
For me, it made some that Dean would call God out at that point.
Unless I am remembering wrong, Amara has made no secret of the fact that she is trying to get God's attention and all of the death and destruction she is causing is the direct result.
So my take on it was that Dean was basically telling God to get it together and deal with her-put a stop to, not just the current situation, but all of it.

Other stuff might have had me scratching my head but this one seemed reasonable enough.

Edited at 2016-05-11 12:48 am (UTC)
8th-May-2016 02:53 am (UTC)
This is a take-away of which I, too, will take. Away. And stuff. *nods succinctly*
8th-May-2016 01:25 am (UTC)
Mileage varies on all fictional show. I think the key is that the character of god, as portrayed in the Supernatural universe (which, of course, isn't our universe -- since we don't have demons, vampires, etc.) isn't good. And I find that exceptionally interesting. If god was all-good and whatnot I'd personally find that dull. And Chuck said it himself, this god is Being and his sister, Amara is Nothingness. I think this parallels interestingly with our universe's matter and dark matter. Almost like a supernatural version of what's natural in ours. Amara is a dark hole somehow brought to consciousness.

Anyway, Chuck, with his capriciousness, is not something to worship. His actions make sense to his characterization. He let Dean be in hell, he let Sam be in the cage, he let Mary and John die, Bobby die, Jo die, Charlie die, etc. etc. etc. ... he's hands on only when the whim hits him to be. (Like the sometimes soft spot for Castiel and Sam & Dean. It's not classic evil, but it's not goodness. It's just Being as self described.

The boys know all of this. Which is why I'm looking forward to seeing what Dean and Sam make of him.
8th-May-2016 01:47 am (UTC)

Thank you. I can see that and I was sure there must have been some parallels somewhere in all of that (I probably had trouble seeing them past my anger at the time). Though I have always thought of the massive battle between heaven and hell and good and evil, is mirrored in Sam and Dean's day to day battles.

Chuck, with his capriciousness, is not something to worship.

Yes. Most definitely. I just worry that they aren't playing it like that? Or well, rather it's not being seen like that. Having Rob play God means we've got to get past, well, Rob playing God. I must admit there were a couple of moments when Rob had a very dark (almost terrifying) face and I could see that maybe they were going of that. That we're not suppose to like him. Or maybe it's just not as simple as that in terms of thinking of goodness and badness. I think Amara supposed to be seen as neither good or evil. At times that's been played extremely well (particularly when she was a child), but it's crossed over to more "evil" lately. And as long as God isn't supposed to he "good" then I'll feel much better than that. The blurred lines are far more interesting.

I just had the feeling that we are supposed to feel some empathy for him and it really annoyed me (much like them making Metatron sympathetic - it was a hard pill for me to swallow considering what he's done in the past). But I can definitely see your take on it and I am really hoping they examine that over the next few episodes.

And actually, another comment I liked about is that he's just one God of many (as seen in Hammer of the Gods) so he's possibly not the only "all powerful" God in the story. These ideas are interesting to me. I probably just assumed they'd not consider this - but I may be (and hope to be!) wrong.

I do particularly love this.

And Chuck said it himself, this god is Being and his sister, Amara is Nothingness. I think this parallels interestingly with our universe's matter and dark matter. Almost like a supernatural version of what's natural in ours. Amara is a dark hole somehow brought to consciousness.

Maybe I have to try and trust that they are going to handle the massive implications of it all.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :)

8th-May-2016 02:45 am (UTC)
Even though I adored the scenes between Chuck and Metatron, it does upset me that God/Chuck shows up.

Let me say first that people saying "thank Chuck" has always annoyed the living shit out of me. There, I said it. Phew.

The idea of an absent, uncaring God has always appealed to me tremendously. Remember when Cas tore into that lady who was praying at the church? So for them to bring him in human form chaps my ass. As you point out, it invalidates a fuckton of the show's story. So what are we to believe about Chuck being a Prophet of the Lord? And then Kevin? They assumed Chuck had died because that's how new prophets are born. (Note there haven't been any new prophets since then, which also bugs me.)

To have a god who has no form and might not even be out there any more worked so well. But then I've hated the whole Amara concept, it seems to be reaching and uninspired. God's sister, being and nothingness, it just seems like somebody stayed in the library too late. That's why I've enjoyed the standalones so much more than the mytharc episodes. Because this arc is, well, stupid.
8th-May-2016 03:15 am (UTC)
Even though I adored the scenes between Chuck and Metatron, it does upset me that God/Chuck shows up.

I was actually appreciating the acting. I particularly thought Curtis did a stand up job. I think as soon as God was confirmed I started to switch off and, yeah, that didn't help me enjoy those scenes as much as I probably should have done (and I was having a hard time buying Metatron being an advocate for humankind after his previous actions Liking him was just too hard).

Let me say first that people saying "thank Chuck" has always annoyed the living shit out of me.

Oh gosh me too.

The idea of an absent, uncaring God has always appealed to me tremendously.

I, too, have enjoyed that aspect of the show. It's such a huge move in all of the story telling (both past and now present) to give God a human form. I know many are saying that Chuck was revealed as God in 5.22 but I've always struggled with that interpretation - it was just so hard to believe and even with him revealed, it's still hard to believe (even knowing this is all unbelievable anyway. I mean, on top of that!). Clearly I have to accept it.

But, there have been some interesting theories about and I hope that the Show has considered the can of worms they have just opened. Which surely they had to of done. With Amara being around it makes sense God is. I suppose I am just surprised how big they are taking this story. I know it's always been big (demons were introduced from the beginning) but to actually have God as a guest star. Yeah, I'm still working my head around that one.

8th-May-2016 08:07 am (UTC)
If they don't give me an acceptable reason why He doesn't immediately alleviate the suffering of people (especially children) around the world I will be simmering with anger the whole time.

I wonder if the reason that Amara keeps destroying Chuck’s little worlds is that whatever he creates there’s always so much suffering.

Maybe being a female being she would like to see a creation without all the pain. She seemed pretty upset when she found out that Chuck had fucked up yet again with this world.

Maybe she wouldn’t be “Nothingness” if Chuck managed not to fuck up his creation (and then fuck off himself when things turn sour). (Copied and pasted from my tumblr.)

Besides, we only have Chuck's word for him being "Being" and Amara "Nothingness". He may very well be an unreliable narrator.
8th-May-2016 12:57 pm (UTC)
Hmmm, interesting idea, And wow, I rather love the idea Amara seeing God for what he's doing and trying to stop it.

And you're right. He is an unreliable narrator. Something else that would be really interesting as a twist as the season closes.

Cool thinky. Thanks for sharing. :)
8th-May-2016 02:24 pm (UTC)
I can accept a God who has washed his hands of the world and who is letting it run on its own "steam" and totally not interfering. I may not like it, but I can accept it. But Chuck didn't do that. He became actively involved in the start to the Apocalypse and even more damning, he worked to keep the Apocalypse on track and to lead Sam to be the sacrifice.

From Monster At The End of This Book

I'm sorry, Sam. I know it's a terrible burden – feeling that it all rests on your shoulders.

Does it? All rest on my shoulders?

That seems to be where the story's headed.

This is part of a longer conversation where Chuck tells Sam that Sam is unsympathetic for being an addict, although he solely phrases it in terms of "sucking down blood". If Chuck is Chuck, Prophet receiving the story as it happens, then telling Sam that seems to be the way the story is heading is okay. He's a human making human judgements. He doesn't know where the story is heading and at the time it does look as if Dean is strong enough and it rests on Sam's shoulders. But if Chuck is God, well this conversation is pretty malicious on his part. If he's God, he knows that Sam isn't just "sucking down blood" he knows that he's become addicted and he's aware of the suffering Sam went through and how Sam actually started drinking blood, which wasn't shown on screen. He KNOWS that if Sam continues, Lucifer will be released and Sam will either become Lucifer's vessel or suffer for eternity trying to stop him. Also in season five Chuck shows no compassion or empathy for Sam and is quite pleased that he will suffer for all eternity. I can accept a God who decides to walk away. I am completely repelled by a God who knowingly leads a good man to his destruction and then smiles about his pain.

I'm meh on the return of the amulet. I don't mind that Sam may have fished it out of the trash and carried it around, I'm not thrilled that God just returns it. If it had to come back, I wanted it to be in response to Dean expressing regret that he had hurt Sam that way and that he gave up on their relationship. Not in the way that it happened.
8th-May-2016 06:49 pm (UTC)
Also in season five Chuck shows no compassion or empathy for Sam and is quite pleased that he will suffer for all eternity

Chuck is pleased that Sam will suffer for all eternity?
9th-May-2016 10:26 am (UTC)
I've been hoping someone would go back and look at some dialogue from Chuck and take another look at it as "god". I just wonder how much changes knowing that the whole time he's God playing Chuck (and God went to a convention? When children are suffering needlessly in the world? Maybe that's a comment on society ;D).

Back in S5 I remember thinking that Chuck knows what's going to happen but can't do a lot about it. I thought he was actually warning Sam in the hopes to turn him around. And maybe even as God he was hoping Sam would turn around? (but as God he'd be able to do something about it). I'd say (just thinking about it now) that both God and Chuck knew Sam's past. - S4 had been written and Chuck knew why Sam turned to demon blood. The contention might be if Chuck actually knew what was going to happen to him (and if so why not tell him outright) or whether he was merely writing the story as it happened (and I wonder if the writers are thinking about this as hard as we are!).

The issue I have with God returning the amulet is it forces Sam's hand. If we take as canon that Sam kept the amulet God decided to tell Dean about it. Not Sam. It could be argued that God was acting in Sam's best interest (like Dean did when he put an angel inside him), but I'm sure the idea that Sam didn't have a choice here won't be addressed.

I suppose it's all opened up some interesting meta. And I would love to know if the writers have delved this deep. (recently "some people take this too seriously was discovered in some graffiti in one of the eps so I figure that's a message to us not to think of this too deeply, because they don't. Maybe? Though that could be referring to the shipping stuff too).
8th-May-2016 08:06 pm (UTC)
I hate the idea that writers (and TPTB) write stories around the fans' demands. Mainly because it dilutes any story that they have planned for the show. It removes the integrity of their own work and, quite frankly, cheapens it.

I viewed the amulet's return as pure manipulation on Robbie's part. It was inserted into the story to win fans over and give them something they have been longing to have back

Back in 2013, Robbie said in an interview that "We get a lot of tweets about bringing the Samulet back. And I personally would like to see the Samulet back. It means a lot to the brothers themselves." So, he's acknowledging the fans interest in it, but he personally would like to see it back. The writers didn't want to bring back the Samulet only because of fan pressure. He goes on to say that it's something that was discussed in the writer's room that year. And he knows that it "means a lot to the brothers themselves." It's a huge part of their storyline, and an important symbol of their brother bond. I don't see anything wrong with the fan's voices being heard, in support of a storyline that the writers want to see. Also, Robbie said "We’re aware of how much it means to people, and it means something to us, too. But it’s like what Adam said—we have to make it a story, otherwise it’s just a scene where one of them is like, “Oh hey, I found this. Moving on…” You want to make it worth the wait." So, with the writers so solidly behind the Samulet's return, in all fairness I don't see it as pure fan service.

The God in the SPN universe isn't "good" in a lot of ways, and I don't expect him to be. I've never had high expectations for him to do the right thing, so even though I don't like that he let Sam suffer in hell, it's consistent with how he usually behaves. He's the "absentee father", he's one who walked away, and even when he's around as Chuck, he's still hiding behind that persona. I enjoy his storyline, even though he's so flawed.

Though I can thank him for giving me Dean petting Sam's hair :) Thanks Robbie! <3 (a

Yes! Robbie gave us some wonderful, epic brother moments in this ep! :) <3

9th-May-2016 10:59 am (UTC)
I have no doubt Robbie feels something toward the amulet as the fans. I think many consider Robbie a real fan of the show. He certainly comes across as loving the brothers as much as we do. And I agree that he knows (like we do) how much the amulet means to them and what it symbolises of their relationship.

I truly hope that discovering it in Sam's pocket isn't "Oh hey I found this. Moving On...". I really hope it becomes part of the bigger story as the season concludes. It would help me not feel so annoyed about it's return I have to say. The fact the amulet really had no significance (other than what it means to fans) in that episode doesn't mean it won't have in future episodes (some have suggested that since God has now handled it's become "a Hand of God", which indeed gives it significance).

And after talking about this episode since it's aired I'm thinking I'll wait until the next 3 eps to see what they are actually going to do with God, Amara, Lucifer etc. I have to accept he's real and in the show so I'll let that sink in. I'm hoping it will be really interesting! :)

10th-May-2016 08:23 pm (UTC)
hi ash, about the 4th wall, i hate the french mistake it was too close and too *real* for me to accept as an episode. Robbie gave us Baby, Fan Fiction, and Slash Fiction <3. but this episode i dont accept

Edited at 2016-05-10 08:28 pm (UTC)
12th-May-2016 10:51 am (UTC)
I loved Slash Fiction!! One of my fave Robbie episodes! :)
10th-May-2016 08:51 pm (UTC)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and for being open to discussion in that regard:)
I see your point about the samulet not really serving any funtion in the plot of the episode, which kinda does cheapen its return, but I´ll hold up hope that that will be adressed later on. To be copletely honest, I have been fine with the amulet staying gone, Dean´s "I don´t need a symbol to be reminded how I feel about my brother" would have been more than sufficient for me. I feel that the amulet was a symbol for the kinda parental relationship the boys had in their childhood, since Sam originally intended to give it to John and that they don´t need it anymore because they lead a relationship on eye level at this point in their lifes, but maybe that´s just me:)I liked Rob´s performance in general and found the dialogue between Chuck and Metatron interesting to watch, but, as many before me have already said, the idea of God as an actual character does not really work for me. I remember watching "Faith" and what I really loved about it was, that, in the end, divine intervention had nothing to do with anything. It was a more or less human and therefore relatable story and bringing God on screen takes much of that away. I don´t quite remember the episode, must have been in s2, when Sam says to Dean that´hope is the whole point´and, for me, there was an innocence to them in the times before they knew about Heaven and Hell and angels and all that jazz that I kinda miss nowadays. I get that this knowledge has been necessary for the developemt of the story, but, personally I feel that, what a character believes says so much about him or her. Dean does not believe in God. Sam does. Both opinions fit to the respective characters, as much as they do to us here in the real world, which is why leaving this question unanswered worked so well. But when it is confirmed that God exist there is no room for belief, for hope. The only way I may be able to live with the idea would be that God in this universe is, like someone said here before, not good at all, just there OR that he is not the all powerful being we assume he is. Sorry for rambling I kinda got carried away:)
12th-May-2016 10:59 am (UTC)
Hi there. :)

I actually thought the "fake" amulet in Fan Fiction was a kind of end to its story line. Dean's line about him not needing a symbol was enough for me too. Unfortunately its return cheapened the original message (due to the fan servicing of its return) and now we're going to wonder what's going to happen to it now. I suspect Dean will keep it in his pocket (as he mentioned in the last con) OR it will play a part in the finale. I hope the latter because then it becomes more than just a last goodbye for Robbie. We'll see.

There was so much potential story with God not being around. I don't know. I suppose I have to wait and see where this goes now before I pass too much judgement - but to be honest I will be surprised if they manage to handle this deftly. I hope they do. I love my show and I want them to be clever and interesting.

Thanks for dropping by. :)
11th-May-2016 07:38 pm (UTC)
Heee!!! I love your new icon! Very fitting :D

Kinda late to the party, I know, but I just wanted to comment. I totally understand your frustration with the epi, even though I enjoyed it. And God being inserted to the story is such a big thing and should have so many implications, I just wonder how they're gonna get out of this. That today's coming ep is written by the Duo doesn't make things better, either. Uff. But we'll just have to see and try not to hope so much, eh? ;)

About the amulet, tho: The fact that Jim Michaels confirmed that God put it in Sam's pocket doesn't mean anything, since Jim's been wrong before in his commenting on eps: After Hell's Angel, fans asked him about the AKF tribute the VFX team put into the ep, and he insisted there wasn't no tribute - but it definitely WAS there :)
So he definitely doesn't know everything, and what he said on twitter might just have been his personal opinion. Both boys confirmed that they believe Sam had it all this time. I believe that too. And I like that version, cos it makes the amulet's return more worthwhile - so that's the version I'll keep :))

Edited at 2016-05-11 07:42 pm (UTC)
12th-May-2016 11:32 am (UTC)
Heee!!! I love your new icon! Very fitting :D

I didn't have that one loaded and I remembered I had this one ages ago. I re-loaded just for this post!

That today's coming ep is written by the Duo doesn't make things better, either. Uff.

Yeah. It's available to me now but I haven't watched it yet. I am thoroughly spoiled but I just can't bring myself to watch it. Yet. I will tomorrow (which never happens!!)

Re the amulet: I figure Jim was going off what happened in the episode (god had it then Sam had it) and the Js were thinking about what their characters. I wish I could make sense of it, but no matter how I twist it, I'm finding it hard to reconcile that it really was only there because Robbie wanted it returned. I can easily head canon that Sam kept it (its what I imagined anyway), but it appearing in his pocket like that. Just. Nope for me. Now, if we (say) had seen it in his trinket box in the episode where we saw the fake one, then it would have a tonne more meaning. We would know (for certain) that Sam kept it - and it wasn't just this parting "gift" from Robbie.

Not that I take away anyone's thrill at it being returned. If Sam gets brownie points for keeping it by fans then that counts for something! :) And if it plays a role in the finale then even better.

Thanks for dropping by honey! Especially when I know our opinions are different on this one. xx
13th-May-2016 09:37 am (UTC)
I totally respect your opinion about Show, and it doesn't matter at all if it's not the same as mine. And see, you're not just... griping about the show, or something. It's totally obvious that you love SPN. And when you critisize stuff, it's cos you're invested in it! Why shouldn't we have the right to express a valid critique on the show we love? :)

It's funny that you still haven't watched the epi, even if you could have. That makes me realize once again how my viewing habits of SPN have changed. I still watch every ep as soon as I can, but if, for some reason, I wouldn't be able to watch right away, I wouldn't be as sad as some time ago. I'm just, eh, ok, I'll watch tomorrow. It definitely has to do with real life getting in the way (we're about to move into a new appartment which is cool, but moving is always kinda stressful! :D), but it also shows that my relationship with SPN has changed a bit. I love it! Without question. But sometimes I'm a bit... more casual about it. And I think I've said this before, but it really helps me enjoy it more, I think.
SPN is still my happy place - I was kinda stressed yesterday and watching the epi (even a crappy epi like yesterdays' - did you watch it by now, by the way? Did you find some things to like?) really helped me relax. Yes I did complain on twitter a leeetle bit afterwards ;P but it definitely took my mind off the stressful stuff. I have my head canons, and our boys, and I won't let any crappy writers or stupid mytharcs take my happy place away from me! :D
12th-May-2016 09:37 am (UTC)
Well said, every single word.

Also, Rob seems like such a lovely guy. His con persona is warm and fluffy, so I had to work extra hard to believe he's God - a character I now despise.

I still believe this was intentional. Using Rob, who the fandom adores, as the face of God, was a ploy to make God at least somewhat likeable, to lessen the fandom's negative reaction to him. Because there was no way around the fact that he didn’t step in and let Sam, Dean and humanity as a whole suffer, so giving him these moments where he almost seems to be more Rob than Chuck/God was the only way out.

Manipulation, manipulation, manipulation. I’m still so mad about it.
12th-May-2016 10:51 am (UTC)
I'm still mad about it too. So made I'm finding it difficult to watch the latest episode. I just don't think I can watch God and not throw something at the TV!
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