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12.05 quick reaction 
13th-Nov-2016 01:59 pm
Nom Nom Nom
I can't believe we're already up to episode 5. They seem to be going by so fast.



I enjoyed this episode quite a lot. I mean, it wasn't earth shattering but I'm actually ok with that. In fact, I'm wondering what the hell is going on. Everything just seems a bit too, idk, easy? The boys are being nice to each other - some friendly brotherly banter and gestures of love - and the levels of angst aren't off the charts. Maybe the calm before the storm?

I really loved Everybody Hates Hitler so I was pleased to see the Aaron and the Thule society re-visited. And if it meant that Dean got to actually kill Hitler? Well, good for him!

I liked the references to the past - namely Sam being used to release Lucifer. These new writers (this time Meredith Glynn) are doing their homework and it's nice to see them going back to basics for their episodes.

It's weird though. I read a review (TV week or somewhere) and the reviewer was expressing great disappointment with it - stating it's the worse this season etc. I was struggling to really understand that because I didn't think it was that bad. But reading into the review a bit further I worked out what it was. She went into the episode with a certain expectation. She knew what the episode was going to be about and who was going to appear in it (Aaron) and had probably imagined all sorts of scenarios. The one that was presented didn't match those so the ep was a loss for her.

I knew little about this one (except it was revisiting the Thule) and had zero expectations of it. Maybe that's why I enjoyed it?

I suspect this is also the reason why so many didn't like the reunion ep (12.02). The expectations for a hug etc. were massive. It didn't deliver on that and so the disappointment was great.

I'm not sure how to reduce expectations (other than stay off line and read nothing) because I suppose we all hope an episode is going to deliver something close to what we want. Maybe my expectations are much lower these days. I'm honestly happy with a run of the mill Saving People Hunting Things episodes. I'm not bothered by small holes (like why didn't that antique shop have an alarm system?), as long as there's some character consistency and an entertaining MoTW. Which, for me, this ep delivered on.

Though I gotta say, it's hard to get excited about stuff just at the moment. I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm still feeling numb and flat after the disastrous US election. Even escapist TV is struggling to cut through that.

*hugs*
Comments 
13th-Nov-2016 07:59 am (UTC)
Escapism is fine by me too! I didn't know this was going to be the episode with Aaron in but obviously that became clear the instant the Then started. I had been spoiled that Adam was coming back and admit I was disappointed (briefly) when they had him phoning in from Germany and no Golem, but these days I find I'm able to go with the flow. Especially when this season's episodes actually do seem to flow. There wasn't anything much that jarred me out of the story - there are always minor plot niggles (and I think half the time these are down to what ends up on the cutting room floor), but nothing that made me wince.

Compared to some previous seasons this one is getting a gold star right now, even though I'm no longer so entangled in the show I can't think about anything else. Which, given the Trump situation, is a bit of a pity as I could use the distraction!! LOL

Edited at 2016-11-13 08:00 am (UTC)
13th-Nov-2016 10:43 am (UTC)
I was hoping for a bit more of Aaron, I admit that, but at least they didn't forget about him or just mentioned him, so I can put a positive spin on his short appearance.

nothing that made me wince
Knowing what the episode was about, I knew one thing that would make me wince (Is this really how we sound to English speaking people???)
And what didn't just make me wince but cringe was the whole scene with Hitler in his new vessel. Maybe being German makes me extra sensitive to this, but portraying him as basically comic relief was a big nono for me.

If I filter these things out though I see a lot of things I enjoy. Remembering 12 years of storytelling, having the boys in character and the way they are interacting with each other and guest stars is wonderful this season.
13th-Nov-2016 11:40 am (UTC)
True - the caricature Nazis were cringeworthy but US shows/films always seem to portray them like that. I don't think it's a German thing so much as a Nazi thing to have them so ridiculously OTT. And 'Hitler' was weird - I wonder whether they meant for him to be more menacing in his gambolling around - you know, trying to contrast his childish pleasure in being back with his evilness. But whatever, it was odd and not very funny.
13th-Nov-2016 12:25 pm (UTC)
Dunno what they were aiming at. I thought maybe Hitler was (even more) nuts from being stuck in a pocket watch for so long? Just a thought.

As for the accents, I'm British and they made me cringe too :)
13th-Nov-2016 01:26 pm (UTC)
And what didn't just make me wince but cringe was the whole scene with Hitler in his new vessel. Maybe being German makes me extra sensitive to this, but portraying him as basically comic relief was a big nono for me.

Same here. Also from Germany. We do look at this with different eyes I believe. :)
14th-Nov-2016 04:50 am (UTC)
I did wonder about the reaction to the portrayal of Hitler in this episode. I've never sure if mocking him is a good or bad move. It's difficult portraying a monster who was actually real. Hmmm, I suspect there is a deeper conversation here but my brain isn't working so well at the moment. All I could think is how dangerously close we are to having our next real monster in charge of a country. :(
14th-Nov-2016 08:50 am (UTC)
All I could think is how dangerously close we are to having our next real monster in charge of a country. :(

In that sense the timing of this episode seemed strangely off. Or perfectly on point? :/
14th-Nov-2016 04:45 am (UTC)
Which, given the Trump situation, is a bit of a pity as I could use the distraction!! LOL

Word!

I was disappointed we didn't get to see Golem because he was awesome. Hopefully they'll be back in the future. :)

I certainly had some niggles but, like you, I seem to be able to go with the flow a bit more these days. Well, especially with the non myth arc eps.
13th-Nov-2016 09:33 am (UTC)
I enjoyed the ep, too. Sam bringing Dean pie, the references to the past (Sam and Lucifer), Dean killing Hitler... all good stuff. :)

I expected it to be based on the Thule storyline from the past, but at the same time, to be its own unique story, so it worked for me.

I suspect this is also the reason why so many didn't like the reunion ep (12.02). The expectations for a hug etc. were massive. It didn't deliver on that and so the disappointment was great.

The difference is that the expectation was built into the storyline, and it was big part of the mytharc. Sam thought Dean was dead, Sam was kidnapped, Dean went to rescue him... they're finally reunited, and there's pretty much no emotional response. It doesn't make sense.

Yes, the election is a hard thing to deal with...
14th-Nov-2016 04:52 am (UTC)
they're finally reunited, and there's pretty much no emotional response. It doesn't make sense.

I totally agree. The expectation was created as soon as s11 ended. It's still completely beyond me that the reunion wasn't even part of the script.

Yes, the election is a hard thing to deal with...

So hard. :(
13th-Nov-2016 01:43 pm (UTC)
I was so off kilter at the time of watching that I'm not even sure how I feel about the ep. I couldn't help laughing at the supposedly german accent though. Too soft. We sound much worse! :D ;) Like catwoman76, I had issues with this comic relief Hitler.
But I did laugh at Dean messing with that model ship. :D And enjoyed the fight scene.

May I suggest something about the numb and flat feeling? Make the time for a meditation and really, really breathe out and let go of this opressive energy and then breathe or invite in fresh energy and life force. Surround yourself with love and light. Be inside a bubble of love and light. Let it be your protective shield. I did this today and it really helped clear out a lot of this negativity that came with the election result. :)

x♥x
14th-Nov-2016 04:56 am (UTC)
Like catwoman76, I had issues with this comic relief Hitler.

I can appreciate that.

And thanks for the suggestion. To be honest I feel guilty trying or wanting to get past it. I can't help but think of all the poor people this is going to effect (already effecting). I know there is little I can do personally so I have to move on. Perhaps the positive energy will have a knock-on effect and real change will one day happen through that positiveness. We can but hope.

*hugs* <3
14th-Nov-2016 08:59 am (UTC)
To be honest I feel guilty trying or wanting to get past it.

I felt exactly the same way. And then I realized it was the downward pull of the negativity itself making me feel that way. Being in your own love and happiness does not mean you are ignorant of other people's plight. It means you can share your love, hope and strength that you have gained from shifting your perception by transforming the feelings of helplessness around the issue. I hope that made sense. I'm still looking for the "on" switch in my brain today. haha ;D

♥♥♥
15th-Nov-2016 10:19 am (UTC)
Yes. It does indeed make sense. Thank you. <33

*Hugs*
13th-Nov-2016 01:50 pm (UTC)
It's weird though. I read a review (TV week or somewhere) and the reviewer was expressing great disappointment with it - stating it's the worse this season etc. I was struggling to really understand that because I didn't think it was that bad.

I must confess that I left the episode with a similar feeling as the reviewer you mention. I wouldn't say the episode was absolutely terrible. There was no LOL!Canon or characterization of the boys that made me want to punch something as we've gotten in the past. However, if I had to rate the episode I would give it a firm 5/10 as opposed to the 7-8/10 most of the episodes so far this season would have gotten.

For me there were several things about the episode I would consider disappointing and / or detracted from my enjoyment of it.

1. There was disappointingly little Aaron and the golem did not even appear. If they were going to do a sequel of sorts to the fantastic Everybody Hates Hitler then they should have at least properly brought back the guest characters who helped make the episode so delightful. Instead our main guest of the week was a descendant of Hitler and an annoying one at that.

2. Dean's episodic journey. The episode begins with us being led to believe that Dean was in a deep state of depression as demonstrated by his refusal to eat the pie Sam got for him. By the middle of the episode he is pouting because mean old Sam won't allow him to use a rocket launcher and by the end he is practically giddy. In my opinion the episodes portrayal of Dean and his emotions did not feel natural and the transition jarred. For me at least I could really imagine Glynn was told "we need Dean to go from depressed to recovered by episode end" and she did just that without properly considering the journey from a to b.

3. The portrayal of Hitler. I am fortunate to not have lost any known relatives during the second world war. However, I instantly found myself irritated by the episodes portrayal of Hitler as some sort of frat boy like buffoon. Adolf Hitler was a ruthless dictator, he and responsible for the death of millions, and he should not have been used as a comedic note. In my opinion it is disrespectful to those who lost loved ones to the war and sure enough since the episode I've read several reports of fans being insulted by his depiction in this episode.

All in all, like I said the episode wasn't absolutely terrible and we have seen worse from the show, but I was definitely not enamored with it and I doubt I'll be rewatching any time soon. I won't write off Glynn yet as I understand first episodes are hard,but I'm not definitely not as excited to see more of her stuff as I was to see more of Perez' work after last week.

Edited at 2016-11-13 02:01 pm (UTC)
14th-Nov-2016 05:06 am (UTC)
HI. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can absolutely see why those things made the episode less than stellar for you.

I agree about Dean's journey. The puzzling thing for me is that at the end of the last episode Dean seemed to be in a much better place about Mary leaving so I was surprised they even had Dean being depressed about it in the beginning of this one. I suspect it's part of this season's character arc - which I think will become a bit tiresome if they keep going back over the same ground.

And I can see the problematic portrayal of Hitler. I didn't find him at all amusing though. I found him quite disturbing - but I agree that making him more like a buffoon than a murderous dictator is a curious (and problematic) choice.

And hopefully there will be another episode in the future that features more of Aaron and his Golem.
14th-Nov-2016 12:49 pm (UTC)
I just realised that feeling the need to respond with my views on why I found the episode less than stellar I forgot to share something that intrigued me, and some of the speculation I've formed as a result of it.

Three times this season we have had reference to Sam's past connection to the Supernatural. In Mama Mia Lady Toni mentions that she wishes to question him about his relationship with the demon Ruby, in American Nightmare he makes reference to his psychic abilities during a conversation with Magda and in this weeks episode he mentions his status as Lucifer's one true vessel.

I've seen several speculations on the cause of this online. Some think that the latter two were name dropped by new writers as a way of assuring fans they had done their research. Others are speculating that they are foreshadowing Sam saying 'yes' to Lucifer later in the season. Personally I think that the references are indeed foreshadowing, but I disagree with the idea of it being a possession foreshadowed. As far as I'm concerned if Sam refused Lucifer for something as big as the darkness back in The Devil in the Details then there is no believable reason for him to say yes now. Instead I think that the references are foreshadowing the brothers future relationship with the British Man of Letters.

As we learnt in Mama Mia the BMoL's is divided. While they all agree that the American Hunters are not doing a good enough job there is contention on why they are 'failing'. There are some such as Toni who clearly believe it to be a Trojan horse type situation i.e. that there are a selection of hunters including Sam and Dean who they believe are working with the demons and purposely maintaining the status quo. Others, and presumably this is the view held by the upper echelon, believe that the American hunters are simply not as competent as they are. They believe that the approach taken by the likes of Sam and Dean i.e. making the decision to kill on an individual basis like they did with Magda makes them too soft to get the job done.

My guess is that the events being referenced throughout the episode so far are a foreshadowing of the former group coming to power in the man of letters. I think we are likely to be treated to several episodes of the brothers and the BMoL coming to a tentative truce only for the BMoL to somehow learn of Sam's psychic abilities and mark him as a target which must be killed in the same way as Gordon Walker did back in season two. I think all these historical references are foreshadowing that the brothers and the BMoL will soon find themselves in a seasonal conflict centered around whether Sam has the right to live, which would also bring the mytharc of the seasons back to the brothers in a truly personal sense. It can also be argued that the callous murder of Magda was also a foreshadowing of the nature of their conflict.

Of course like I said this is all speculation and I'm way off, but I'd love to hear your thoughts :)

Edited at 2016-11-14 12:49 pm (UTC)
17th-Nov-2016 11:27 am (UTC)
Hi,

I have to admit I am not very good at speculating when it comes to this show. I used to look for clues to see where they might be going with a story but have learnt, over the many years, that they rarely leave "hidden" clues as to where they are going. If they are dropping hints they usually make them rather anvillious.

Those references to Sam were interesting (and I loved them!), but to be honest I would be surprised if they are foreshadowing a future story line involving Sam. I am happy to be wrong because I would love them to revisit any of these things to do with Sam. Mostly I think it was the new writers doing their research and including them into Sam's moments within the episode. I think they also served the story line at the time - Sam bonding with the girl with psychic powers and then later because of being "used" like Magda.

I think the main thing we'll probably see with the BMoL is the rift between Toni and Ketch (and maybe even how being in this "organisation" is soul destroying and sometimes they get it wrong. A bit like Dean learning that things are not always black and white back in S2) and then them coming to the realisation that Sam and Dean are actually pretty damn good at what they do. In that respect I think the Gordon Walker story line might be revisited - but not in a hunt for Sam but rather the "not everything is black and white" storyline.

Of course I really have no idea! The only thing I really (really!) hope is that when the BMoL returns Sam's torture is referenced. It's so hard for me to work out why they had 2 episodes of pure misery and pain for Sam and then absolutely nothing. I'm not holding my breath, but I hope that at least that's not forgotten.

Thanks for sharing your ideas. I would love a theme of whether Sam should be allowed to live to happen. I am still keen for Sam's consent (and lack of) to be a major theme - as that's something that comes up time and again and is never addressed.


13th-Nov-2016 10:14 pm (UTC)
I think because of the election I was very okay with this episode. I didn't have to ponder much, it didn't take me on an emotional ride- it was the Winchesters being Winchesters with enough humor to make me smile - which I needed. Nothing feeling to out of character is always a bonus to me and my hubby loved they addressed the grenade launcher. :)
14th-Nov-2016 05:07 am (UTC)
Yes, it's nice that we went left in pain from this episode. It would have simply been all to much.

And yay grenade launcher. I reckon they'll have to use it in a future ep for sure now. :)
14th-Nov-2016 09:25 am (UTC)
I liked Sam being sympathetic and more references to his past. I liked Sam and Dean's interactions. I loved the bit with the grenade launcher.

That being said, I have friends who are Jews (and SPN fans) who were very hurt and offended by this episode. So I'm not willing to give the show a pass for the problematic content this week.
15th-Nov-2016 10:16 am (UTC)
I can totally understand that. It must be distressing watching a monster such as Hitler being played comically.

Sam being sympathetic brought back memories of early season when Sam had that connection with the victims. It was a nice touch.
14th-Nov-2016 01:04 pm (UTC)
As I try to avoid spoilers as much as I can, I came in not knowing anything (and possibly with less expectation?), and I enjoyed the episode. I didn't LOVE it, but it was very watchable and entertaining, and it held my attention, and I liked how it sort of spun off from 'Everybody hates Hitler'.

I was disappointed that we didn't see more Aaron, but I liked the comedy, I liked the rocket launcher and the pie, but most of all I loved seeing the boys getting a win under their belt. It certainly felt like it helped with their morale.

Take care ♥

15th-Nov-2016 10:18 am (UTC)
*nods* The boys having a good win under their belts was satisfying. And to see them fairly relaxed. It won't go down as the most memorable episode, but certainly not the worse!
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