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just enough to make us dangerous
12.15 reaction 
12th-Mar-2017 04:14 pm
4th Winchester Stick
Well That was rather curious...



This episode felt kind of weird to me. I'm pretty sure I enjoyed it but there were some moments that really had me scratching my head - mostly the little 4th wall breakages. Seeing Negan's (aka papa Winchester) barb-wired covered baseball bat was both hilarious and strange. I loved the shoutout and TWD crossover but it took me completely out of the moment and I wondered if we were in for one of the comedy eps. Then there was the Queen referenced in one scene (a shout out to Misha's Queen obsession during his GISHWHE week) and the comment "girl of the week". The show referenced it's own format and that threw me off too.

All in all I think the rhythm was slightly off. I can't really put my finger on it.

Anyway...

Sam and Dean's banter was funny and cute (and really Sam? You keep track of Dean's underwear?? DO TELL!!). They had an easy familiarity between them which is always lovely to watch.

I found the opening really interesting. It had all the hallmarks of a typical SPN opening (killing by the monster of the week), but, unusually, it took its time to establish the characters. It seemed weird, but by the end it made some sense. The girl's story (eek, can't remember her name off the top of my head) became an important part of Sam's story later on.

I found the performance of the actress playing said girl to be quite weak and I couldn't tell if she was deliberating playing someone in shock or just giving us nothing.

I also found it weird that Sam and Dean would visit her only to tell her she was mistaken in what she saw (to help her sleep at night?!). We haven't seen them do that since S2 (Ronald from NightShifter). And then they drive away and then, um, come back (seemingly...what? having a "feeling" she was in trouble?) to save the day.

Meanwhile, we have Cas and Crowley interludes. It was good to see what Cas was actually up to rather than just being told he's looking for Kelly. I liked seeing Cas wanting to be accepted back into heaven (but why does he have such dry lips?! It's always so distracting...).

I think one of my favourite moments in this episode was the twist with Crowley. Finally! Smart!Crowley. Though I couldn't believe how dumb those two other demons were (like DUH! guys. It's Lucifer!!!). I thought Crowley was going to get taken down again, but yay! He outsmarted Lucifer AND made sense of why he kept the vessel for so long. THANK YOU SHOW!

Other little oddities - what really was the point of Crowley being there with Dean? He told them about the hellhound being loose but that he couldn't control it. So, um, why was he needed? (my own answer - so he could "bond" more with Sam and Dean for something in the future). The girl thanking him and then Sam thanking him was strange considering he didn't actually do anything (other than turn up). I suspect we are leading to Crowley being more "helpful" in the future.

At first I was puzzled why on earth Dean would tell Sam to look after Baby when he was about to drive her - as if a) Sam doesn't know how much she means to Dean and b) Dean doesn't know how much Baby means to Sam - but we later find out that the dialogue was about what happened to her in the end. So yeah - just a "joke". But kinda lame when we know the history of Baby and the boys.

Dean, once again, didn't get the chance to kill the hellhound. It didn't bother me initially but then I saw some discontent about this on Twitter and I could see their point. It probably would have been satisfying to see Dean get his revenge. But, then again, Sam has some history with them too and he'd equally want to kill one.

Another one of my favourite bits was the parallel between the girl (I really should look up her name) and her would-be-boyfriend. Sam connected her lack of honesty to his own and it brought about him telling Dean about the BMoL. Firstly - yay! - we don't have weeks of Sam keeping a secret and secondly *phew* it didn't create disconnect between them. Though I suspect when they discover the true nature of the BMoL Sam will feel guilty for getting Dean involved. Or something. The big reveal about what they've done is yet to come, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

So yeah. Mixed bag. Some pacing issues, some canon issues but it was mixed with cute banter and some satisfying moments.
Comments 
12th-Mar-2017 10:38 am (UTC)
See, I don't hang out much in SPN fandom and don't watch The Walking Dead (? I guess that TWD stands for), so I didn't get any of those reference you talk about in the first paragraph, so for me this played very much like a 'normal' MotW episode with a bit of Hell on the side, and as such, was very satisfying.

I love that the show is more aware of their own history now, and more thoughtfully references it. Giving the boys the chance to take down the 'first hell hound' provided a nice bit of symetry. Despite it not being explicitly mentioned I also felt that the case 'hit home' more than others which would explain why they took time to talk to the girl when they thought she was out of danger. Remembering Dean being chased by those invisible dogs made me uncomfortable, so how hard must it be to go after it again?? Made total sense to me that a) Dean wanted a wing-man to go looking for the dog's den, and b) the dog-owner wanted to make sure that his dog was not maiming any more humans. Not good for his rep, after all... ;)
13th-Mar-2017 11:07 am (UTC)
so for me this played very much like a 'normal' MotW episode with a bit of Hell on the side, and as such, was very satisfying.

I actually really liked the opening with Sam and Dean - especially the banter. :) I've never watched The Walking Dean, but because I'm on Twitter I've become familiar with it. Also Jensen had posted a photo with it - tagging JDM.

Made total sense to me that a) Dean wanted a wing-man to go looking for the dog's den, and b) the dog-owner wanted to make sure that his dog was not maiming any more humans.

Oh good point. I'd love to have seen a reference to how Dean might have felt about hunting a hellhound, but I think we can probably imagine his feelings.
12th-Mar-2017 01:55 pm (UTC)
I'm glad it was at least a mixed bag for you i.e that you got some enjoyment out of it because I honestly hated the episode. The characterization felt off in several places for instance, as if Dean, who considers the bunker his home, would be casually flicking pieces of siren all over the floor. Plus while he's not been shown as a neat freak Dean has always been shown to possess basic hygiene rather than being completely filthy. The Cas scenes were boringggggg. Yes, I'm surprised to hear myself say that. And the pacing was odd and uneven. It definitely doesn't surprise me that this episode got a brand new series low in the ratings.

It was good to see what Cas was actually up to rather than just being told he's looking for Kelly. I liked seeing Cas wanting to be accepted back into heaven.

I actually feel quite the opposite. I found the scenes rather repetitive and boring. We've seen the whole Cas trying to be accepted by heaven thing before and we don't need to see it again in my opinion. Plus, I'm fairly confident, that if this isn't some sort of trap, we'll get to a point where heavens interests and the Winchester's will clash. Then Cas will be forced to pick his 'earthly family' over his 'heavenly family' for the millionth time. I'd have preferred for them to take things from a different angle like him only agreeing to work with heaven in attempt to try and curtail their worst tendencies. That would have also fit in perfectly with his development in regards to the nephilim at the end of Lily Sunders Has Some Regrets.

I thought Crowley was going to get taken down again, but yay! He outsmarted Lucifer AND made sense of why he kept the vessel for so long. THANK YOU SHOW!

That was a good scene! I think the fact I'm tired of the Lucifer storyline and not particularly invested in Crowley diluted my enjoyment though *sigh*.

Dean, once again, didn't get the chance to kill the hellhound. It didn't bother me initially but then I saw some discontent about this on Twitter and I could see their point.

I'm not normally one for getting into debates about which brother deserves more kills, but Sam has definitely been getting most of the major big kills recently while Dean has been conveniently missing from the main action.

However, Sam has also been shown to make the inexplicable and stupid decision to join the British Man of Letters for no good reason, so I guess that balances things out.

Random Tidbit: Did you notice Mark Pellegrino appears to have been promoted to series regular? He was placed between Mark Shepherd and Misha in the starring credits rather than being placed after as a special guest star like Samantha Smith.

Edited at 2017-03-12 01:57 pm (UTC)
13th-Mar-2017 11:33 am (UTC)
Hi. I'm sorry to hear you hated it - but I can totally understand why.

Initially I didn't connect Dean's past as being out of step with him being covered in goo and not even wanting to shower - but I've since realised how out of character it is for him. And in fact I'd imagine him wanting to have a shower immediately when he returned - as we know how much he loves showers.

Then Cas will be forced to pick his 'earthly family' over his 'heavenly family' for the millionth time

Ah yes. I must say I didn't consider that. I confess I don't follow Cas' storyline s closely as I should. I forgot that we've been through this before.

I think my point about "seeing" what he was up to, was simply that we got to see it rather than be told about it. But yeah, they could have gone in a different direction. I suspect they need to do something with Cas until he plays a part with the nephilim and at this point they just seem to be running out of ideas. I'm not really sure...

And Dean has been taking a smaller role in the killings over the last couple of episodes - I wondered if this is because of the twins.? Even so, he's been in both episodes and there's no reason why he can't have smaller involvement, but still be involved in the kill.

However, Sam has also been shown to make the inexplicable and stupid decision to join the British Man of Letters for no good reason

Yeah, it's a strange one. I was hoping we'd have a clearer idea of why, but from this episode it simply looks like it's because they are getting the job done. My major concern is that when they realise what douche's they are Sam will get the blame (again) and he'll feel guilty for "taking a side". It's a usual storyline for the show, so it would be refreshing if it doesn't go that way. The weirdest thing is him saying that the BMoL helped kill the Vamp alpha - when it was Sam who did all that. Either way, they will have a moral dilemma coming up in regards to the BMoL.

Did you notice Mark Pellegrino appears to have been promoted to series regular?

oooh, no I didn't! Hmmmm, I wonder what that could mean. I can't see them keeping Lucifer around past this season (I mean, how many storylines can there be for him?!). Curious.
15th-Mar-2017 09:25 pm (UTC)
I didn't notice that either, and it reminded me of someone else commenting on one of your review posts with the idea that Castiel might be written out of the series this season. If true, they'd want to replace him and Pellegrino has been popular. It might also explain what you suggested about Crowley becoming more helpful -- Lucifer would definitely be the ongoing antagonist with Crowley siding with the Winchesters.

Otherwise I can't see why they'd add Pellegrino to the credits this late in the season unless it was simply a billing demand.
16th-Mar-2017 12:19 pm (UTC)
I honestly can't seem them writing out Cas. He's just far too popular. And from what I'm reading on twitter (and yeah, I only read a very select group of people) Mark P isn't particularly popular (nothing like Misha is).

Otherwise I can't see why they'd add Pellegrino to the credits this late in the season unless it was simply a billing demand.

I think it's probably this. Mark gets a lot of TV work - I suspect he's been enticed back with a higher billing. But...I'm only speculating. I honestly have no idea where they're heading. More and more characters I suspect as the Js have bigger family commitments now (but probably still get paid the same as they used to...)
12th-Mar-2017 04:26 pm (UTC)
I absolutely hated myself for cheering for Crowley at the end...but damn, he was masterful...and as much as I can't forget what Crowley did to screw the boys in the past, I hate Lucifer more...Crowley better stay on the boys' side!!!

...what really was the point of Crowley being there with Dean?

I was perplexed by that as well...

I did like the twist that the girl Gwen really wasn't madly in love with the poor boy. Nice misdirect in setting it up to be so tragic for her and it wasn't so much. Made me mostly forgive the anvilness of her conversation with Sam in the car about regretting lying. I also noticed at the very start she was the one chopping logs for the fire...thought that was nice.

I could see Dean's acquiescence at the end as in character--he was clearly of the mind that if Sam who was tortured by the BMoL could put that aside to work for the greater good, then Dean would do it to have Sam's back.

I am really curious about where the BMoL storyline is going--can't even guess at the writers' endgame.

14th-Mar-2017 10:15 am (UTC)
and as much as I can't forget what Crowley did to screw the boys in the past, I hate Lucifer more...Crowley better stay on the boys' side!!!

I was cheering too! I think that's because Lucifer is such an arrogant a**hole that we were happy to see him taken down. I've never really been a fan of Crowley (he's done some horrid things in the past), but I'm happier seeing him competent and using his cunning against someone like Lucifer rather than innocent people (like Kevin).

I also noticed at the very start she was the one chopping logs for the fire...thought that was nice.

Yeah, I liked the set up. He make-up took me out of the moment a bit, because all I could keep thinking is all the makeup she would have with her on the camping trip (I get distracted easily *g*).

I could see Dean's acquiescence at the end as in character--he was clearly of the mind that if Sam who was tortured by the BMoL could put that aside to work for the greater good, then Dean would do it to have Sam's back.

Yes yes. Also, after last week, he agreed to follow Ketch on a hunt so he's not totally against the idea of them anyway. He just needed that little push from Sam. I just hope that both of them agree to work together against them when/if the time comes.

can't even guess at the writers' endgame.
Me neither!


Edited at 2017-03-14 10:16 am (UTC)
12th-Mar-2017 05:10 pm (UTC)
I, too, felt that the last episode or two was a little Dean-lite, esp. in the action scenes. I wondered if these eps filmed when the twins were due or newborns and the reason was more to accommodate Jensen than for some over-arching plot purpose...

But as long as the boys keep having good hair days, I'll keep coming back! (J/K -- I'm a bit more engaged than that.)
14th-Mar-2017 10:22 am (UTC)
But as long as the boys keep having good hair days, I'll keep coming back!

haha! Me too! As long as there's always the pretty I'm here. :)

And I've seen people say that this was the time the twins were born so it might explain his lack of involvement. He might have even been written with more action but things might have been changed due to his family commitments.
12th-Mar-2017 11:03 pm (UTC)
Yep. Pretty much. I enjoyed it but was simultaneously disconcerted and amused by the 4th wall stuff - the Trump reference was another one that threw me out while making me laugh.

I thought from that first scene that things were being played for laughs more than for the sake of the story - Dean being mysteriously covered in gore and body parts while Sam was totally clean for starters. Firstly we know Dean cleans and cooks and stuff, so I can't see him casually flicking nasty mess everywhere in the bunker, but more importantly, were they seriously trying to have me believe he'd been sitting in Baby getting muck all over her interior? Nope, not happening.
14th-Mar-2017 10:28 am (UTC)
the Trump reference was another one that threw me out while making me laugh.

Ah yes! That was the other one. Hee, though I liked they were referring to Hell in that sentence. Kinda apt.

were they seriously trying to have me believe he'd been sitting in Baby getting muck all over her interior? Nope, not happening.

Oh yes. That too! And I agree, it was all about the laughs. I think, also, it was about seeing how happy Dean is after a kill. He was absolutely loving it and was loving that Sam was finding these "great"
hunts. Even though it was all very LOL!Canon, I think there was intention (that connected to the final scene).
13th-Mar-2017 02:19 pm (UTC)
Yes, I'm with you! I enjoyed it, but it wasn't the strongest of episodes (I think perhaps it might be because I've been yearning and hoping for a motw with just the boys and a case, but I guess due to the twins they've had to bring in more cast members so we're getting a bit more story arch in each ep?)

I actually enjoyed the Neagan ref, but I think the others just went right over my head because I don't remember them at all and I watched it twice! I did enjoy that we got a bit more from the side characters, and how that linked in to Sam. And I'm so relieved that the 'secret' is out, and it didn't cause any drama. Lets hope no blame gets thrown around when the truth about the BMoL is revealed (I'm really craving Sam's reaction to Magda's death now!!)

Also, maybe this is just me, but this felt like a lighter episode. Maybe because Dean was very relaxed and joking, and there was banter, and not a lot of angst. So yeah, that was enjoyable too.

Take care and thank you for sharing your thoughts :)
14th-Mar-2017 10:33 am (UTC)
I think perhaps it might be because I've been yearning and hoping for a motw with just the boys and a case,

I am totally HANING for a case ep with just the boys. I miss that so much. But yeah, they just can't. With both Jensen (and now Jared) having new family members they have to create stories that involve many other characters. Let's hope that next season (when they stop having children!) they will have more episodes with just the two of them.

(I'm really craving Sam's reaction to Magda's death now!!)

I hope we get to see that. And I want them to know about all those guards they killed at the prison - but I doubt either moments will be revised. We'll see.

Thanks for always popping by and sharing your thoughts. :))
13th-Mar-2017 04:00 pm (UTC)
See for me and this is me taking frustration out at any place I can already have a friend listening to me vent is the fact took end of episode for Sam to come clean about working for the brits which again Dean not thrilled with because at first united front against working for them but what did Dean have a choice Sam made it for them so Dean now has to play along with them since been doing for two weeks which that bothers me also. But the worst part is who is going to come clean about the colt in play again Sam waiting for mom to tell Dean or is Sam going to come clean on who really killed the alpha and how he was killed?? who is going to drop that bomb shell on Dean and do we think Dean will be happy with the brits having the colt??? So Sam came clean on some stuff but hiding more is not going to help his relationship with Dean? And Cas leaving now and glad dean noticed something off? sorry that is me venting you might see it on other forums also. just bothered me about episode things were looking good for the brothers telling the truth and you knew way Gwen was going on and on about lying in the car you knew truth would come out just thought maybe just maybe Sam would come clean on everything. So sideways going to be no one telling Dean about the colt or who is going to tell him to push him away from family???
14th-Mar-2017 10:46 am (UTC)
Hey there. I don't mind people venting - we all need to do it at some point. I confess I did have a bit of a hard time following it though as without punctuation I had to kinda work it out...*g*

But I can hear your frustrations - I think they are all valid. The show likes to keep us hanging on some of these things. I suspect we'll either find out later that Sam told Dean about the colt OR we'll see him discover it. Personally, I think we'll be lucky to see it again (unless it has been introduced to kill more than just the Alpha). I've learned, over the many years, the show doesn't always follow through on these threads - they needed something to kill the vamp and the might be it.

There is always brother drama in the show - I think that this season we've seen a lot less than usual (thankfully). In fact, I think it's been a pretty good season for that. Even now, Dean accepted Sam working with the BMoL because last week we saw Dean do the same thing (he followed after Ketch). He also trusts Sam on this - after all, Sam was the one mostly tortured by them so if he's ok with being on board, Dean is going to have his back.

sorry that is me venting you might see it on other forums also.

I actually don't read other forums. Other than Twitter I rarely read show threads - I found them too upsetting sometimes...;D

Thanks for dropping in. :)

15th-Mar-2017 09:14 pm (UTC)
I found this episode subpar in a number of ways, some of which you mentioned. But of the positive things, I agree that having Crowley outwit Lucifer AND have an explanation for the body was unexpected and very welcome.

As to his helping out, I gather it was because he was both able to see the hell hound and also because he wanted to "supervise" and make sure it was either killed or returned to hell since there was no guarantee Sam or Dean would get the job done. He does have powers so presumably he'd be no worse to have on hand than anyone else.

The whole bit with the Impala was incredibly dumb -- as was Sam simply waiting for the hound to charge them rather than using the car as a weapon to run it over. Frankly given the build up of this particular hound, the fact that Sam could fight it off so easily was very underwhelming.

I also liked the fact that the guest characters' story tied into Sam and Dean's own situation and yes, that we didn't have a drawn out situation of continued lies. I think this echoed strongly to Sam of what Mary had done with them and how badly things had gone with the vamps. He didn't want to be in the position of putting Dean at risk in the same way.
16th-Mar-2017 12:21 pm (UTC)
Frankly given the build up of this particular hound, the fact that Sam could fight it off so easily was very underwhelming.

Very much so. A big deal was made of it with no big pay off. Kinda weird all round really.

He didn't want to be in the position of putting Dean at risk in the same way.

Thank goodness! I couldn't bare Sam keeping this a secret the way Mary did. I suppose it was bad enough that he kept it hidden for 2 weeks.
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