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6.08 episode reaction.. 
13th-Nov-2010 04:35 pm
Relax!



Warning: turn back now if you want squee....



Hmmm...

I want to dance and be squeeful and all that but I just can't. In fact, that made me miss Sam MORE THAN EVER! So much so that it actually made me tearful. How pathetic is that?

See. If it had been something other than really Sam I might have held out hope that Sam couldn't be this awful. This empty. This difficult to watch. That whole scene with Sam goading that skin walker with the ball...?? *shudder* That's where I think I started to have a tear.

I get it. I do. It makes sense that they want to see what makes Sam tick without a soul. It's interesting I suppose but....it's also extremely hard. I really felt like we had reached the ultimate divide between the boys when Sam left Dean in Season 5.. but nah. This makes that look like a walk in the friggin' park.

And Lucky was a mirror for Dean. I know show likes to do that, but I just kinda went - yeah, we know that. We know Dean is truly alone at the moment. Whenever isn't he? Do you have to rub it in our faces even more? And she was Lisa and the boy was Ben and she called him a psycho and he was left to walk to streets alone...

*sigh*

The thing I did get was how completely entwined and bonded these boys are - which of course I already knew but it's always nice to actually see it. I suppose Dean should be seen to be caring more about Sam's lost soul, but really? The way Sam is at the moment must make it extremely difficult for him to connect with him. But he's sticking around. That's gotta count for something.

At least Sam came clean but it wasn't anything we didn't already know. He doesn't care. We know that. Dean knows that. I suppose the fact that he's still sticking with Dean's gotta count for something as well. :D Oh boys...

I wonder if Sam soul really is still in the pit? What an awful thought. He'd be down there long than John was. Maybe purgatory? Maybe even heaven? (I wonder what they would do if they discovered his soul was in fact in heaven? Would they want to get it back? Maybe Dean would just decide to go and join him...*g* and they loved happily ever after.. *G*)

I felt the episode wasn't as tightly directed and even edited as previous ones. There was this weak as weak cross dissolve that almost put me to sleep. (In fact for me to even notice that I must have been falling asleep..*g*). I suppose the pace just wasn't has tight as it could have been or something. I dunno. Maybe I was expecting and hoping for more. (which is silly really consider they need to do run of the mill MoTW episodes).

My worry is, how many eps are we going to get until Sam gets his soul is back? Because, to be honest... I think I'll just wait and tune in then. (of course I doubt I could actually do that..). I'm hoping before the mini hiatus which must be coming up in what? Two more episodes?

It would make sense to have it around then. I'm sure they can't have too many eps with Crowley calling the shots. I hope.

Oh damn. Don't mind me. You know that once I've had a week to mull over things and read all your fabulous posts I will feel positive again.

What I did like was how debbiel66 recent story picked up a sentiment that was in the show tonight. It's easier for Sam without a soul. It's an interesting thought. That having a conscience is hard work. It hard because it can stop us from doing things that might be expedient, but not necessarily moral or right.

Sam's always battled with that. I do like that they are exploring that and in turn examining who Sam really is. How are you going to feel Sam when you get your soul back and have to deal with the stuff you've done? Oh yeah.. guilt and redemption again probably...

Stuff I did like:

1. Opening dialogue from the guy on the phone. Hee!

2. Sniper Dean. Holy Hell! How is Dean so incredible hot this season?? *guh*

3. There were some good one liners. Can't remember them, but I chuckled a couple of times.

4. That the werewolf turned out to be a skin walker. Didn't expect that.

5. The patented SPN blood splatters. Hee! They make me feel right at home. I wonder if they have a blood splatter gun?

Um...

I did notice Sam was back to the quaffed hair look. Interesting that not having a soul makes for clean, shiny hair. I wonder why his body isn't a wreck not being able to sleep? I wouldn't have thought your soul would be responsible for sleep. If it doesn't need sleep, I wonder why it needs food? I would have thought sleep is a need the same way food is. Arghh.. remnants of past thoughts...ignore me.

There was only one line tonight that was "off" in terms of Sam. And that's when he said "my dog" to himself. I thought we might have been on to something there. Your dog Sam? How so?

I'm done. Sorry for the downer. Not really fair, but as I said once, I say it as I feel. I'm sure there was a lot more in there than I saw. If I can just get past missing Sam and The Bro Team so much I might be able to detach and not care.. (can't see that happening).

*hugs*

Time to squeeze in some vidding. That'll cheer me up. :D
Comments 
13th-Nov-2010 09:25 am (UTC)
Um - hi. I sort of barge into people's journals and chat at them about TV shows sometimes, and it's probably poor etiquette. Do you mind? Anyway - I just thought this was interesting:

And Lucky was a mirror for Dean. I know show likes to do that, but I just kinda went - yeah, we know that. We know Dean is truly alone at the moment. Whenever isn't he? Do you have to rub it in our faces even more? And she was Lisa and the boy was Ben and she called him a psycho and he was left to walk to streets alone...

because that wasn't quite how took it. I mean - I may be wrong? I get that that parallel was there. This is something that has happened to Dean already, and that informs his actions and decisions throughout the story. But the idea they were playing with was 'What is this thing you've taken into your life? You thought you knew - but you didn't, and while it may not mean you harm, it's certainly dangerous'.

But, well, Lisa wasn't in this story. Sam and Dean were, and that's kind of where they are now. Dean has been Lucky, but he isn't right now - Sam is. Dean went with Sam on the basis that he was Sam - and it's generally been easy to do things for Sam, because he's Sam. It's not so easy to do things for the sociopath he's become. The woman took that dog in on the basis that he was a dog - and she clearly loved that dog. But the crazy member of a band of monsters plotting world domination? That's a different story.

So the whole 'who are you?' thing goes on and on - the revelation that every skinwalker is a traitor paired with Sam sitting there cheerfully remarking that he'd just double cross everyone - he's done it before, throwing Dean to the vampires, and might well do it again.

Which has parallel endings - both monsters go back to the people who've taken them in and essentially announce that yes, they're monsters but this is all they have. Lucky is turned away, Sam is taken in. The woman (Um - I missed her name) made the sane choice, Dean made the heroic one - but also the one he'd make because he's been there himself. If the guy who saved the world shows up with a few issues - well, you probably owe it to him to deal with them.

So I thought the point of the story wasn't that Dean is alone, but that Sam isn't. And that was a bit up in the air, because Dean has been running around generally not coping with the idea of this person who looks like Sam but isn't him.

Of course, Sam may be lying, evil or anything really and I'd just like the real version back now - but that's another issue. :) Um. Sorry for randomly attacking you with my blather? I'm done, now.
13th-Nov-2010 09:40 am (UTC)
I'm barging back into this because I need to say THANK YOU. Every review I've read so far is taking the parallels with Dean - and they are there, I'm not denying that: Dean's alone, Dean's been turned down, Dean has not yet had the courage to knock on Lisa's door again. But this → Lucky is turned away, Sam is taken in. The woman (Um - I missed her name) made the sane choice, Dean made the heroic one is what I took out of the episode, and yes it makes me afraid of what is going to happen because of this decision (to Dean, mostly, but also to Sam) but that's why I'm liking the story even if it's kicking my heart.
13th-Nov-2010 09:35 am (UTC)
*hugs* I don't have a lot to offere, sweetie - I'm still thinking about the episode - but yes, I'm missing old Sam and like Dean I would like to have him back. Also, I have a big case of OH DEAN after this episode.

Time to squeeze in some vidding.
I like the sound of that! :D
13th-Nov-2010 01:03 pm (UTC)
Thank you honey! I came off the ep feeling so sad.. for both of the boys. But I know it's all part of the arc and the continuing theme of family and good and evil and everything that SPN is... but yeah. *teary face*

Show does like to hurt us so. (and yeah, ok... I love that about it *g*)

I like the sound of that! :D

Oh yay! Vid... it's happening. It's hard - I will not kid 'cause I'm out of my comfort zone, but I love that about it. :D and squeee..counteragent is helping me out. :D


Edited at 2010-11-13 01:05 pm (UTC)
13th-Nov-2010 10:11 am (UTC)
I felt much like what you said here. I thought it was because I'm tired today but it seems the epi is a bit of a downer... maybe it's because the brothers relationship is kinda dead because without feelings, how much life is there. I think something really needs to happen now. Otherwise they will only keep doing jobs Crowly tells them, while there (emotional) relationship is dead. That would make for boring epis, wouldn't it?

That's my tired thoughts here today... (A bit of sunshine outside would help, nothing but rain and clouds here lately.)

xx
13th-Nov-2010 02:06 pm (UTC)
Yeah - it was very hard to find joy in this one. With the last episode at least there was a sense that Sam may have needed Dean as his moral compass, but here Sam was just a dick. I hate to say it... but there you have it. He was nasty and everything I really don't want Sam to be.

At least with "on a mission Sam" there was something else going on.. here it's just Sam without a soul and he's not nice.

(and you know how hard it is for me to admit that..)

I'm sure there will be some good thoughts around for this ep. I will hunt them down.

Hope you a well honey. <333
13th-Nov-2010 01:34 pm (UTC)
This is a dark, dark season.

Sadly, I do not think that we are headed for resouled Sammy happiness in 2 episodes (I'm not spoiled). Either they are going to return it and it's going to be a BAD thing, or they aren't going to return it until the end of the season (or maybe slowly over time, although that will be hard to justify given that he's been pretty inconsistently written).
13th-Nov-2010 02:42 pm (UTC)
This is a dark, dark season.

Oh boy. I honestly didn't think they could go any darker. But yeah... darkest yet.

or maybe slowly over time, although that will be hard to justify given that he's been pretty inconsistently written).

They hinted that Sam could have "part" of his soul back. Which suggests they might play with the idea of slowly bringing Sam back.. but yeah, that would be very messy.

I thought if they went with Sam being "other" then there
was some consistency, but if they write off all the stuff he's done up to now then, yes.. I would see that as being inconsistent and just in there as a cheap tactics to raise the tension.

*sigh*

Sadly, I do not think that we are headed for resouled Sammy happiness in 2 episodes

Yes, I might have been overly optimistic to hope that we could be heading for some resoul (ve) in 2 episodes. A whole season of soulless Sam?? That will really test my devotion I have to say.

xx
13th-Nov-2010 03:17 pm (UTC)
That whole scene with Sam goading that skin walker with the ball...??

*nods* Add that to the WTH pile. Why are we left with a malicious-esque Sam?
14th-Nov-2010 12:53 am (UTC)
Why are we left with a malicious-esque Sam?

I just don't know. Why can't he be soulless Sam without being awful. Sure, don't care about things but you don't have to be nasty to boot.

*hands* I just don't know. I thought today I might have been feeling a little better about it all, but nah... in fact, I think I'm even more confused and sad.

I just need to be more patient. :)
13th-Nov-2010 05:32 pm (UTC)
Show does love it's parallels doesn't it? Even down to one of the first victims being Mandy's boyfriend's brother and how he'd attacked Mandy and got what was coming to him and then at the end? Sam saying he didn't care about Lisa and Ben? God, I don't think I WANT to watch any more thinking about what that could mean - but it's like a train wreck you just can't take your eyes off.

I'm at the point where I'm not sure what not having a soul actually means - he can't feel, can't judge right from wrong, but does follow Samuel and his family, don't know why. I presume they're going with the not sleeping Sam as the example that the brain sorts out all your deep feelings, worries and problems while you're asleep and seeing as Sam doesn't have any, therefore he doesn't need sleep - I'm not totally buying it as usually people who can't sleep end up being very, very ill, so that's all down to the conscience? *shrug* - I admit defeat on that one. I could understand not dreaming, but sleep?

**hugs you** - 'cos I think we're in for the long haul here - season at least and as much as I find soul-less Sam interesting and entertaining - it's not satisfying in any way or form, it's like watching Crowley or Bobby - he's just there and that's not what makes the show for me. Even Dean wanting his brother back just sounded a bit hollow if you get my drift - not much anger or drive going on.

As to where Sam's soul is - haven't a clue, as I've said before I find it hard to believe that Crowley could get it out of the cage, but thinking more, as the cage was only designed for a fallen angel, maybe Sam's soul did fall straight into hell and if that's the case? Then Crowley does indeed have it. Then it's about time someone started thinking about how Sam will ever be Sam again after that long in hell. 13? 14 months and counting? Dean isn't going to get the brother he wants back, but there again I suppose if they're gunning for season 7? Not sure I can stand it, but I expect I'll be watching...

Good luck with the vid hon.
14th-Nov-2010 01:05 am (UTC)
Yeah, show loves it's parallels and I enjoy that about it. This one just seemed too heavy handed and I really just saw Dean being the dog on the lone highway. Though others (above) have mentioned that it's more a parallel with Sam and that whereas Mandy kicked the skinwalker out Dean won't kick Sam out. I can see that, but I'm not sure Show was thinking like that. Though I think the dual parallel is valid.

As for the rest... *hands*. I just don't know. No more answers, just more questions and just a painful, painful reminder of how empty the boys' relationship is at the moment. *sniff*

I think we are in for a long, dark haul. One I would like to be excited about but just at the moment I can't be.

And vid is big. Probably the heaviest in terms of its meta and than anything I've done before. It's exciting because it's a challenge and yet scary because I'm not entirely sure I can pull it off. I can but try, :D :D

*hugs* oh and *clings* lots of clinging needed this season.

xx
13th-Nov-2010 11:47 pm (UTC)
All I have to say about the soul thing is think of Angel and Spike. How were they when they got their souls back and how did they act without them? Makes you think.
14th-Nov-2010 12:57 am (UTC)
Well it might if I knew who they were when they got their souls back. :D

I've never watched BtVS so I don't know the answer to that. Did it make them sleep more? Make them nicer people..?

I have to say I hope that Sam returns to the Sam we know and love when he does get his soul back.

xx
14th-Nov-2010 02:35 am (UTC)
I'm hoping before the mini hiatus which must be coming up in what? Two more episodes?

I was wondering about this too. I was assuming they wouldn't run an episode on the 26th because of the holiday, but they probably wouldn't run more than 3 after that either.

I wonder if Sam soul really is still in the pit? What an awful thought. He'd be down there long than John was.

This is part of the problem for me -- he's been presumably battling Lucifer for, what, over 100 years by now? And supposedly time in hell is what creates demons. How much good will Sam's soul be to him once it's returned? Because it seems highly unlikely he'll get it returned before the end of the season and that would be hundreds of years by then. (Although I can't help being curious how one measures time in hell -- Dean spoke of days. What, they have an artificial sun going up and down?)

If it doesn't need sleep, I wonder why it needs food?

Well, physiologically it does need sleep for a number of reasons but the writers of SPN seem to be unable to master simple concepts such as time and distance so I don't imagine biology is very high on their list either. My guess is that they're equating the need for sleep with the need for mental energy. We all know, for example, that judgment is impaired when people are tired, emotions are more difficult to control, etc. because frankly being considerate of others and careful about what you and don't do is mentally and emotionally exhausting. (And for some people, even sleep isn't enough, they are barely human until they've had large doses of caffeine). So my guess is that as Sam is not considerate of others and generally has very little restraining his decision making process, he doesn't need to constantly recharge the moral batteries with sleep.

There was only one line tonight that was "off" in terms of Sam. And that's when he said "my dog" to himself. I thought we might have been on to something there. Your dog Sam? How so?

Interesting, because that line stood out to me too. But I thought it stood out largely in the way JP delivered it rather than the line itself. I think he relates to the term "my dog" rather subconsciously. It seemed to me that Sam should actually be frustrated there -- his hunt has been robbed. But he sounds more like a dog owner who's just had his pet go missing.
14th-Nov-2010 05:53 am (UTC)
Because it seems highly unlikely he'll get it returned before the end of the season

This will absolutely kill me. A couple of episode of Sam like this I might stretch to, but more than that will wear very thin. It might be that he will get "parts" of it back (as Crowley mentioned)... which could be very messy, but might see a return of some emotions. But a soulless Sam for the rest of the season will just be too much for me.

My hope is that somehow it's returned soon and then the rest of the season is left dealing with the state of Sam with his soul back. He'll no doubt be a mess.

I sincerely hope it isn't returned after 100+ years in hell. Too inconceivable for me. I still struggle with the idea that Dean was in there for 40 years. Best hope -maybe Purgatory or somehow suspended. Battling Lucifer..? Oh man.... :((

I like that sleep = recharging "moral batteries". Of which Sam just doesn't have any...

Hee! Yes re the dog line. Probably meant to come across as "my dog"= "my hunt" but came across as though he owned the dog. (And my brain went straight to SEE! He's controlling the Alphas!! I honestly expected a reveal that he's the one controlling the shots. Maybe that's why I ended up being disappointed with the episode).

Thanks hun. Off to read your think thoughts. I'm sure they're more coherent than mine. *g*

xx
14th-Nov-2010 10:22 pm (UTC)
My feelings about the season in general and Sam more specifically are actually quite similar to yours. I MISS HIM. HARD. And I'm about to share that with the world, too. *gg*
And I'm with you on hoping that they won't keep this up for all too long. :/
14th-Nov-2010 10:56 pm (UTC)
Yeah. I have been really enjoying the season so far, but I still miss Sam dreadfully. I know he will be back. Sooner rather than later hopefully... <33
16th-Nov-2010 01:06 am (UTC)
And Lucky was a mirror for Dean. I know show likes to do that, but I just kinda went - yeah, we know that.

I saw Lucky as mirror for Dean, yes, esp. with his speech of knowing how much it meant for him (Lucky) to have that woman and boy take him in. But I also saw Lucky as a mirror for Sam. He was masquerading as something he wasn't. Here a family dog who was something "other" just as Sam was playing at being plain old Sam, when he finally had to admit to Dean "No, I'm not your brother". Both Lucky and Sam are kind of displaced right now. And poor Lucky wandering off, maybe to find another home- or maybe not. It's the journey the Winchesters are still on *sniff*

I felt the episode wasn't as tightly directed and even edited as previous ones. There was this weak as weak cross dissolve that almost put me to sleep. (In fact for me to even notice that I must have been falling asleep..*g*). I suppose the pace just wasn't has tight as it could have been or something. I dunno.

Yeah, I had issues with the pacing too. The battle at the end was kind of tedious with several shots of the boys shooting and a skinwalker winding up face down with a bullet hole in the back. Once. Sure. Every single time? Yawn! Still, the boys looks quite badass coming in there with guns blazing, so there was that.

I wonder why his body isn't a wreck not being able to sleep? I wouldn't have thought your soul would be responsible for sleep. If it doesn't need sleep, I wonder why it needs food? I would have thought sleep is a need the same way food is. Arghh.. remnants of past thoughts...ignore me.

No, I too am wondering about this. And I am wondering if Sam's lack of sleep is a clue to how to deal with getting his soul back. I keep thinking, surely, there is someway for them to circumvent the Crowley factor and get Sam's soul back on their own. Like, reverse astral projection maybe? Or if Sam *could* sleep, could he somehow dreamwalk his way back to his soul, or at least to its location? If he was hypnotized, could he reconnect? I don't know. I wish they could come up with something. Maybe something Bobby or Castiel will stumble upon as Crowley has the boys on a pretty tight leash.

And don't feel bad for feeling bad. These past few episodes have been pretty brutal! I miss Mah Sammy like all get out! Sure Soulless!Sam is interesting- but he isn't fun or pleasent. And the boys are sad... so of course, we the viewers will get sad. I'm still holding out for a pay off though. Here's hoping it comes soon!

There was only one line tonight that was "off" in terms of Sam. And that's when he said "my dog" to himself. I thought we might have been on to something there. Your dog Sam? How so?

16th-Nov-2010 01:11 pm (UTC)
Hey there,

Yeah. I can now see the connection with Sam as well. I think this work on dual parallels. I like the way show can do that. I was so ...um... annoyed I suppose, with the obvious Dean parallel that I missed the Sam one. :)

I like the idea that his lack of sleep may be linked to him not actually being able to get his soul back. If he could sleep, as you say, they might be able to find a way of getting around Crowley. I'm sure they will find a way of getting his soul back without relying on Crowley. But to be honest... I have no idea what they have up their sleeves. I've been convinced that Sam has more going on than meets the eye and I've read many theories that Crowely is lying. So *shrugs* who knows...

*sniff* I miss my Sammy too. I almost had tears tonight looking through past Sam episodes as I'm making my current vid. He doesn't deserve this. I just hope his soul is somewhere safe.

:)

Edited at 2010-11-16 01:12 pm (UTC)
20th-Nov-2010 11:25 am (UTC)
I'm all caught up. \o/
Miracle I know. I didn't mind this ep. It was just kinda pointing out how not having a soul has made him without morals etc. I kept thinking, "get 'em Rex!" though, so mixing up my fandoms. :P

BTW, if 606 was a drinking game where you had to match Dean drink for drink...? O_O
20th-Nov-2010 01:51 pm (UTC)
yay! Caught up!

Oh hun, Show is mixing me up big time at the moment. I've been loving it but it keeps messing with my ideas about what's going on and then I'm all confused. Hence my "relax and enjoy the ride" motto. I just need to sit back and enjoy...

And Dean and drinking? I think that boy has a real problem. But then, he did suffer 40 years in hell and is now having to deal with a soulless brother. I think I'd be knocking back few. (damn, I knock back a few already and I haven't been through all that..*G*)

xx
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