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Picmetaspam: Sam, Sex and The Soul 
5th-Aug-2011 06:45 pm
Sam paying for it

Recap and Meta: ash48
Graphics: geckoholic
Beta: bythedamned

Special thanks and notes are here.

So. Season six soulless!Sam was pretty sexy yeah? He unashamedly showed off his bod, he hired a hooker and had sex with a woman he picked up in a bar rather than search for his missing brother.

We all cried, “but Sam wouldn’t do that!” -

And Sam wouldn’t. Not the Sam we grew to know over the previous five seasons.

I've been wondering why Show found it important to include so much sex in Sam’s soulless story arc.Collapse )
6th-Aug-2011 01:25 am (UTC)
This is all kinds of awesome!!

Clearly a topic that calls for lots and lots of research! I do hope you need to update this meta after season 7 ; )
6th-Aug-2011 01:38 pm (UTC)
Hi. Thank you so much.

Hee... yes! LOTS of research.

I do episode recaps so I will probably include any sex Sam may have during S7 in those. I can't wait to see what direction they take with him now. If they do anything that is...

Thanks for dropping by.
6th-Aug-2011 04:38 am (UTC)
I may or may not be posting just to use this icon. In my head, there's batman music in the background. :P

Also, re: the comments above, I think it makes sense that Sam carried his v-card all through high school, especially with what you've conclusively shown. He needs an emotional connection for sex, and it's drilled home that Sam never got to settle down long enough to make any meaningful bonds until he left for Stanford. Plus, (if show were reality, we're I'm all for assuming it is), the girl Sam loses it to would rank highly on his memorable list, I'd think, and there's no one pre-Stanford era that's ever mentioned. Our poor Sammy was a (freaking sexy) virgin.

Edited at 2011-08-06 04:39 am (UTC)
7th-Aug-2011 06:07 am (UTC)
I love that icon!!

Yes. He never settled down long enough to make that connection. It also makes sense that at Stanford he was starting to feel "normal" and thus felt he could invest in that connection. Also, without Dean around he might have felt less "threatened" (in terms of getting and keeping the girl *g*)

There have been some interesting comments and observations. Some I hadn't considered. Which is what I love best about doing these.

Thanks again for all your help sweetie.
6th-Aug-2011 03:54 pm (UTC)
My brain is online today (lol) and I very much enjoyed reading this. ^_^ But now I can't take my mind of Sam and sex... ;D
7th-Aug-2011 10:01 am (UTC)
Thank you babe! And I lived with thinking about Sam and sex for quite a few months. :D Life is hard. (and man, I'm making a Jared vid at the moment and my brain is going into total melt down.. *G*)

6th-Aug-2011 05:30 pm (UTC)
This was fascinating and exceedingly well done. Obviously the choice to sex Sam up for S6 was very deliberate. And it was a clever way to show the differences in Sam without a soul. I read in a comment reply that you plan to write something similar for Dean. I'm exceedingly interested in reading that. Because in some ways Sam is more straightforward. Dean and intimacy is such a tangled web. And the self esteem issue is perhaps even darker than we imagine it to be with Sam. Plus, there's the dividing line of pre-Hell and post-Hell because those are two very different Deans.
7th-Aug-2011 12:18 pm (UTC)
Thank you!

Writing Dean is going to be very tricky I think. I haven't settled on my approach yet. But I think I'll try to look at it in terms of his self esteem and look at pre and post hell Dean. Hmmmm... that will take some pondering. I think it will be delicate also because I think there will be varying opinions on that.

geckoholic has already said she's in and I can't miss an opportunity like that...;)

Thanks so much for stopping by.
7th-Aug-2011 01:55 am (UTC)
Aargh, I was trying to post this yesterday and LJ would not allow me to do anything but read (if that). Hopefully this goes through.

Sam is incredibly shy and it's only with Dean's not so gentle persuading that he asks Sarah on a date.

See this was never my interpretation. Sam is confident (even overconfident) in so many other areas that I never saw this as "shyness" so much as reluctance – a concern for the outcomes and consequences of what might happen were he to get involved with someone. And this weighed approach is only amplified after Jess dies, he says as much to Sarah. Yet this is something Dean has never worried about – here today, gone tomorrow. We know Sam never approved of Dean's approach, being perhaps more tuned in to what it meant to be abandoned once one started to become committed. Because one thing we also know is that Sam more often felt reluctant about pulling up stakes from the places they went than Dean did. He understood the problem of attachment because he looked elsewhere for it, unlike Dean.

So for me the change in him when soulless was simply an abandonment of any concern for other people, meaning that instead of taking into consideration the effect of what he was doing, he just did what his urges called for, and he was perfectly aware of his effect on women.

I’ve always found it interesting that Sam comes across as very shy around women, but once he’s actually with them he pretty full on and intense.

I think this also makes continuity sense. Once Sam has decided to go for something, he has already overcome his own mental arguments, so he is as driven when it comes to sex as to anything else. Again, I don't see this as shyness or low self-esteem, I see it as a repression done for the benefit of others. He knows he's a lot to handle.

He’s always been presented as being damn fine in that area

This made me laugh because I've noticed that, unless it's a comedy, it's almost never implied in TV that a guy is lacking in bed. (As if TV worlds weren't enough of a departure from reality...)

The extra time (from not being able to comment) made me think about this some more and I have to say I think the episode that is most intriguing to consider in light of Sam being soulless is actually Two Men and a Baby. I have all sorts of problems with that episode because I found the writing and acting inconsistent in light of what we later know. However, I have to assume the writers knew what the arc of the season (and Sam) was at the time so I'm considering what they wrote quite apart from JP's acting choices in it.

I find it intriguing to consider whether or not Sam would be uncomfortable with small children and would, soulless or not, actually be a better parent than John (short of John's more desperate straits). Certainly in past episodes we've seen that it's Dean who tends to bond with them so, even though the writers did not take the advantage to explore Dean's own experience with infant Sam, it's not actually a surprise that Dean handles them fairly well (or that Sam would want to call him as his memories of their lives together seems intact). What we can also assume is that, regardless of his own feelings, Sam would feel committed to the safety of an infant. But in S4, Sam was not soulless and his way of dealing with Adam was not noticeably different than his expressed feelings in this episode when Dean talks about Ben.
7th-Aug-2011 01:51 pm (UTC)
LJ has been well weird. And a tad frustrating...

I can definitely see that interpretation re Sam's approach. I suppose my feeling that he's "shy" came from the nervousness I perceived he had around Sarah - especially at dinner. I totally agree that he would be reluctant to hook up with anyone - especially after Jess.

We know Sam never approved of Dean's approach,

I was asked about this above and I've been trying to site moments when Sam was outwardly disapproving of Dean and is approach to women. I recall him eyerolling etc. but I have no recollection of him actually being genuinely disapproving. I'm keen to know of moments because if I tackle Dean and sex I think I should take that into consideration. So if you could point me in the way of any particular eps I would be interested. My memory ain't what it used to be.

I don't see this as shyness or low self-esteem,

Yeah, I don't see Sam as having low self esteem at all. And I suppose I could be mistaking shyness as that awkward behaviour he demonstrates around women.

Ah.... Two Men and a Baby. I was actually looking at that ep again the other day and yeah... inconsistent and they missed good opportunities to explore the characters further.

I remember having real problems with that ep when I first saw it and wasn't convinced that Sam would call Dean. I think I ranted a bit about it at the time. So I really don't have any insights on that. I think it really didn't make a lot of sense.

Would Sam make a better parent than John? Wow... now there's an interesting question. I suddenly have an urge to pose that question to my flist because I'd love to know the thoughts are on that. Personally I'm not sure.

Thanks for reading hun.
7th-Aug-2011 09:45 am (UTC)
Now that was interesting! :) Thank you.
And the screencaps to go with the text didn't hurt either. *g*

I noticed one typo at the end in the very last paragraph, after awww: Or will he just run a mile...?

And I wondered what you meant by this in the section about season four:

It's a wonderful contrast to the sex we see him have with Ruby in episode 5.19.

I guess you mean 4.09 here?
7th-Aug-2011 09:59 am (UTC)
Thank you!

And thanks for the pick ups. All fixed now. ;)
7th-Aug-2011 11:38 am (UTC)
really random, but jess. very important, even in season 6 finale, "with jess" not the real world. even after all these years, and all these others 'get-togethers' and "ruby", jess is like sam's IT!

anyway, great blog/post! just had to say that about jess... i love jess!
7th-Aug-2011 01:56 pm (UTC)
Yes. Jess. It's quite something isn't it. The ever lasting effect she has had on Sam. I didn't write a lot about this but I agree that Jess was definitely IT for Sam. So sad really.

7th-Aug-2011 01:58 pm (UTC)
This was very well put together, thanks for sharing!
7th-Aug-2011 11:15 pm (UTC)
Thanks so much dropping by! :D
7th-Aug-2011 02:29 pm (UTC)
this is awesome!

I love how you`ve put everything together, the idea and how you`ve follwed and displayed Sam`s journey and change over the years.

And I adore geckoholic`s graphics, she`s the best when it comes with colors aso (everything`s sooo pretty)
7th-Aug-2011 11:16 pm (UTC)

Thanks so much!

And yes! The pics are soooo pretty indeed. <3

Thanks so much for dropping in hon.

(can't stop staring at your icon...*g*)
7th-Aug-2011 04:24 pm (UTC)
This was really cool!
And also when comparing with Dean,who on the outside is cocky but in bed he seems a gentlemen, while Sam seams the opposite
I approve of the amazing pic-Sammy as well
7th-Aug-2011 11:18 pm (UTC)
Thank you.

I think the difference between them is interesting indeed. Something I hope to look at further if..er... when, I do Dean.

Thanks for popping by.
8th-Aug-2011 08:49 am (UTC)
Hi Ash
I've been madly busy with real life for a couple of months and just managed to get my act together to look at LJ again - and the second thing I saw was your 'meta'. I really enjoyed this, and the insight you have into the show, and Sam. I love how you make us think, and your turn of phrase (for the first time we get to see Sam have sex, and it's pretty interesting!)- and your use of understatement!
How do you find time to produce such good reading for us...? However you do it, it's great - so thanks Ash. I'm now wondering why the Hell I've been away for so long and exactly what I've been missing!
8th-Aug-2011 11:58 am (UTC)
Hi there! Thanks so much for dropping by and for your kind comments.

This took months to put together - little bits every now and then, so finding a little bit of time each night isn't too hard. It's also a great way to practice writing. I don't do a lot of it (like this) so it's a great way to learn. Plus... damn this show.... it makes me do this stuff!

I sometimes wish I could take a break away. I just enjoy it all too much. :D

Great to hear from you. Did you hear we have 23 eps this season! \o/ How awesome...


8th-Aug-2011 12:55 pm (UTC)
This was a very well done article about the development of San as a character. It's funny cuz I was mentioning ot my husband as we were doing a marathon viewing of the first six Supernatural seasons that Sam (especially in Season 4 and beyond) was having more sex than Dean and Sam's sexual encoutners were more angsty and driven by anything other than a caring or rapport with the woman in question. This was a direct opposite of what we saw from the sex Dean was starting to have in those same seasons. It's like the brothers were flipping sexual roles in their dynamic. Dean from one night stand love 'em and leave 'em to 'hey I care about this chick a bit and want to express that', and vice versa for Sam.

Am I making sense? I hope so? I'm typing fast. :)
8th-Aug-2011 01:02 pm (UTC)
Hi there,

Thank you. And yes, that makes a lot of sense. Actually your comment came in just when I was contemplating this very thing. There's been talk of a role reversal - Sam hunting more like Dean and Dean becoming more like Sam (with the picket fence life etc.) So yeah, the way they have sex could be seen as a reversal as well.

Dean has always been showing as very caring in his sexual encounters. Even way back to Cassie. I think he has probably always been quite the caring lover only he likes to leave (I suspect to save him from any hurt or rejection) where as Sam has been quite passionate and..um.... hungry. Though I can definitely see the role reversal here.

Hmmm... food for thought. Thank you. :)
(no subject) - Anonymous - Expand
21st-Aug-2011 01:54 am (UTC)
Yup! I loved that they used sex this way with Sam. Having srt of a thing for Sam W, I'd thought many of the same things myself, but it sure is a pleasant revisit!!!! :D :D :D

Lovely work here!
21st-Aug-2011 09:10 am (UTC)
Yeah... I think it was clever. Of course the extra eye candy didn't hurt but I think it was there for more than just that. I know Sera gets a bit of flack for showing off Sam but in this case I think it really worked well for the soulless!Sam story line.

Thanks for stopping by sweetie.
21st-Aug-2011 06:15 pm (UTC)
After reading this fabulous meta and the comments, what stuck with me was how Sam was imo a virgin until Stanford (too much moving around to make connections for friendships, let alone a girlfriend, let alone a sexual relationship), and with his past and future encounters with sex it was a very personal moment for him, even if first times are usually a comedic, uncomfortable disaster.

I'd always personally thought Jess took Sam's v-card. It hadn't occurred to me until now to speculate if they were both virgins, but mulling it over I lean more towards 'no, she wasn't' and I can't really put my finger on why.

Anyway, combined with how much he loved her, how horrifically he lost her (at 22!), how Lucifer used her form against him, how traumatized he was realizing Lucifer had his friend Brady possessed to kill her (or Azazel, if you're like me and choose to hand wave to infinity to keep that canon true), and how his brain sought to protect itself from the wall by trying to bribe Sam with memories and dreams about her, I am just almost convinced she was also the first person he slept with. You can have many deep and fulfilling connections after your first time, of course. In fact, most people either don't remember/don't want to remember their first time, and statistically don't stay with the person who was their first time. But fate hates Sam so much and his feelings for Jess are just so far reaching into his subconscious it would just be the icing on the cake Jess was the first person he slept with (might not have been the only person he slept with though! they might have broken up for a year or two), and also the person he ended up wanting to spend the rest of his life with.

Wow, I babbled on here. /0\
22nd-Aug-2011 01:36 am (UTC)
Oooh, I'd never thought of Sam as a virgin with Jess. I'm not sure I totally buy it (your arguments are sound. I just think honestly Sam would have done it to stop Dean nagging him about it! I bet Dean was insufferable), but I'm now in love with the idea anyway and can't for the life of me guess why I haven't seen that in fic!

Edited at 2011-08-22 01:37 am (UTC)
29th-Aug-2011 01:03 pm (UTC)
I don't really know how I managed to miss this O__O Wow that was really interesting! Loved the meta and the graphics ♥
1st-Sep-2011 02:59 am (UTC)
Hey hun!

Thanks so much. I get a bit thinky sometimes...:)
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