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8.07 episode reaction (NOT a review...) 
15th-Nov-2012 11:23 pm

Please do not enter this post if you want squee. Or if you want a rational, non passionate (objective-free) review of that episode. The passion doesn’t come from a good place I’m afraid.

I feel particularly bad after making new friends...*glings* I pride myself on being positive but I can’t be positive if I don’t feel it. Ack! I'm so sorry... (run!)

I was in two minds about even doing a reaction post because I believe if you can’t say something nice it’s better not to say anything at all. But I use my journal to post about my show so I figured I would. Plus, I seriously need to get some grievences off my chest. They are NOT character issues. It's not character bashing - it's just me being unhappy and therefore passionate (aka ranty).

So… turn back now (REALLY!) if you’re jumping about and want someone to share your squee with. However, if you can shed some light on what I might have missed then I'm up for it. :))

(I do have some positives which are at the end of the post…*g*)

Firstly. That was the most boring episode in the history of the show for me. I have never (never I tell you!) felt like either turning the show off or fast forwarding it more than I did tonight. In fact, I did fast forward it once.:((( (sorry show...I tried not to but I just DID NOT CARE!).

I have never been less interested in any of the storylines than that one. I have been trying to figure out why. Seriously. I really want to grasp what it was.

I think I will have to finally come clean with myself (and anyone who decided to read on) that I have completely lost interest and patience with the demons and angels story line. During the “previouslies” I actually groaned. Groaned I tells ya! I just didn't want an episode that revisited all that stuff...(so I poured myself a glass of wine to steal myself…)

It didn’t help. Try as I might (and fuck I tried many times) I just did not get into it. It isn't good that this is the major story arc this season /o\. I seriously have to get on board with this if I am going to make it through to the end. (Muttering "get on with it" every few minutes does not bode well...*sad face*)

Secondly. Oh man...my secondly is filled with so much stuff that I can’t even.

So let’s do this... (I need to get this off my chest….).

I hated (to the point of almost crying) that there was no mention, no NOTHING about last week’s episode. It was as if that incredibly important, powerful moment between them didn’t even happen. I kept trying to find things – some indication that it had mattered, or that it even occurred. But no. The most I could find was that Sam kept asking Dean if he was all right and hovering around him. Now, normally I would be all squeeful for this brotherly concern but it was difficult to be when I kept waiting for some acknowledgement of what had happened.

Was Sam’s constant worrying some show of his guilt maybe? Was he pandering to Dean’s every twitch because he knows how hurt he really is? I think not. It was just, from Show's POV...let's get on with the next episode. Who cares about what happened before this. I get that Dean could just move on because he couldn’t remember what he said…but Sam? I needed something.

It obviously wasn’t that important *sniff*

The torture was really hard going for me. That scene with Crowley and the angel guy was so disturbing. But also boring. I think torture works if it’s either on someone we care about because we have an established relationship with the character, or if it's poignant. That poor guy. (did he die in the end? I couldn’t tell…)

Normally Kevin and Mom provide some levity and interest, but all they did was shout (why did they shout and not just talk to each other?) and “act” and it was totally unbelievable to me. I just don’t get why they couldn’t have given us that wonderfully strong, clever and maternal mom we first met in Tiger Mom. Instead we had a caricature. It was all so very try hard. I don’t blame the actors. In fact I totally commend Osric for his performance. I could see him trying to bring depth to his character. He has made me like Kevin, which is no mean feat considering I really didn’t like the idea of him when he was first introduced. (His torture I really felt. And kind of hated because I really felt it! Arghhh... Poor Kevin!)

The holy water spraying was there as a joke (and I did love the water gun at toward the end) but it was totally stupid. Especially if it meant re-laying the salt line every time. Why couldn't she be smart?

And speaking of smart. We knew the witch was going to be bad yeah? So all that stuff was a complete and utter waste of time. And all those derogatory comments toward her? And then she dies? I could have done without that. (Actually, I tuned out of all her scenes… a complete waste of time).

Humans don’t matter. But worse than that....It doesn’t even MATTER that humans don’t matter. Dean killed that demon in the trunk.. WHY?! What’s wrong with a good old fashioned exorcism? Sam wiped out…what…3 humans with that bomb? Bring back blood drinking Sam just so he can save humans. Please! (no not really but I NEED them to care about human meatsuits. They just don't care about the human collateral anymore. The thing that makes Sam and Dean..SAM AND DEAN is that they care about humans. No longer it seems. D:)

I don’t mind Crowley in small (and I mean SMALL!) doses. I always think badies are best mysterious. We just see too much of him. I liked some of the one liners – they were amusing, but what he was actually doing was truly nasty (and ultimately boring).

And I get it. Demons are nasty. Crowley is nasty. But do we need to see traumatized children and women being exploded into bits? I just… can we please be done with him. *feels disloyal* (though I have never really liked him so I don't feel turncoat).

EXTRA WARNING! (if you are still reading) Here's my Cas and Dean stuff...so PLEASE move along if you have come this far because I need to say this but I know some of you will be cross with me. *sheepish*

I think because I don’t give a rats arse about Cas and Dean’s relationship I find anything that’s all about their relationship completely and utterly boring. (I've said boring far too many times yeah?) That’s not to say I find Cas or Dean boring at all. I just find Show’s attempts to make that “something” really friggin’ try hard. I know that’s not fair and I get that Dean/Cas fans will be squeeing to high heaven and I am happy for them, but for me I just don’t feel it. Dean and Benny’s friendship makes so much more sense to me. It’s gritty and honest and they seemed well matched in terms of their personalities. But I just can’t see why Dean and Cas are friends. Why? I really need someone to explain that to me. Dean seems to suddenly have this..omg I’m not leaving you thing going on when Cas actually left Dean to fend for himself in Purgatory (and dammit there's so much more... I’m not going to even go into it all). I suppose I just have to trust it’s there. AGAIN! I'm sick of just trying to find reasons why they get on. (and actually, I wonder if that's the same for fans who wonder way Sam and Dean get on? Maybe opposites attract? Maybe it's the way I can see every little nuance when it's Sam and Dean but not see it when it Dean and Cas. I get it, but I want to see more than just the ship on the show. I want to see the real friendship...) And I am NOT having a go at Dean/Cas fans. AT ALL! I just want the show to make sense to those who aren't shipping Dean/Cas. Give me something I can grasp here. PLEASE! And why do all DeannCas episodes have to exclude Sam (perhaps there lies be the rub...).

And ...um...was Sam even in that episode? Oh yes.. that’s right. He was on the computer. You are such good exposition Sam. Thanks for that. (I did like you reassuring Dean though. I know you don't need any reassuring because you are just so stoic and friggin' cardboard cut out...D:)

And there was this. This fucking killed me:

Dean: I was there. I know that place. I know we had to scratch and claw and kill and bleed to find that portal

Oh really? Because all the footage we’ve seen so far didn’t give us that. I’m surprised there weren’t violins playing in the background. There were (awful) camera zooms – jerky little…THIS IS IMPORTANT…signals from the director.

For fucks sake! Treat us like intelligent viewers. (I commend Jensen for giving us his extra serious face. He was trying to sell that, but it just didn’t wash with me). Or maybe the director was making the most out of clunky dialogue.

Now for the positive:

SAM IN BED AND FACING DEAN! Yeah...I'm grasping all those little, TINY Sam'n Dean moments. And sleepy Sam in a Tee...thank you! Sam hand on Dean's shoulder? \o/ Thank you! (but in context....grrrrrr.....)

The effects were great (yep, that’s like saying to an actor the set was awesome). There seemed to be more effects in this than we’ve seen before. The storm was cool, Cas as a full on angel was super cool (love the extra blue eyes!). The leviathans in Purgatory always look great. There were others…they were all pretty smooth for TV.

The reminder of the "perspective" theme was good. Dean remembered it one way – Cas gave him the “truth”. (So I wonder how much "truth" Dean isn't remembering?)

The hotel was interesting. (I spent a lot of time looking at the motel). Lots of prop reuse – the fridge, lamp, floor …WALL (yay!)

LOVED the wallpaper! Lots of flowers…again. They love flowered wall paper - and those flowers were awesome! (warning me that there was a lot of clunky, "meaningful"and completely empty moments in that motel room. *snark* sorry...).

One last thing. (*yikes* back to negative) Cas is on call for the boys - which is great of course because as soon as they are in danger they just have to call on Cas to save them. Oh yay! Cas can fix everything! \o/ Let's have entire episodes of them trying to work things out, get hurt and Cas can swoop in and fix them. Or what? Cas can't be found because he's busy in heaven?

I know, I know. I shouldn't resort to sarcasm but from where I'm sitting they have (one again!) worked themselves into a corner. If they have an angel on their shoulder they can do anything. Now Show has to work out ways that Cas CAN'T help them because he's...I don't know... crazy or a megalomaniac (I did like that comment!) or impotent or busy maybe?

And on top of that he won't remember his "reporting back" so he's "betraying" them which will play into Dean's betrayal issues and...*yawn*. And then there's Cas's "I'm not worthy issues' *double yawn* (oh me! How the fuck so cynical?!)

This is the closest - THE CLOSEST I have come to being so pissed off with the show that I could conceivably quit it. (hee..rage quit hubby just told me! He wishes...). That's really drastic for me and i think I have finally understood why there are disgruntled fans.

WHAAAAA! I don't want to quit you! I can cope with all the shit between Sam and Dean. AS LONG AS IT'S ABOUT THEM! I DO care if I'm bored! I do care if YOU DON'T MAKE FUCKING SENSE! I DO care when you FORGET THE PREVIOUS EPISODE!

I love you! Don't leave meeeeeeee *glings*

It's completely my fault of course. I often thought..."I can't imagine why fans aren't interested in the show anymore", then they give me an episode that makes me actually understand that. :(

I'm going to be one of those fans leaving the show kicking and screaming I'm afraid. If it continues like this (next 3 eps say?) then I promise I'll leave quietly. :((

*deep sigh*

(apologies for typos...it's late. I'm annoyed and sad. I'm not good at proof reading).
15th-Nov-2012 03:34 pm (UTC)
I agree with literally everything you said. You said exactly what I've been thinking- right down to Crowley and Dean and Cas' relationship.

Exception: I'm not pissed at the show, it was just a bad episode.

What bothers me is how squeally everyone is about it but it's not because of actual quality but because Dean and Cas had "moments" (which, btw, seem very contrived to me.)

And honestly, I saw "caricature" Mama Tran from the very beginning episode. Everyone adored her but I found her embarrassingly bad.
15th-Nov-2012 03:51 pm (UTC)

I figured everyone would be squeally (hence my multitude of warnings) and I don't begrudge them that. In fact.. lucky them! I wish is was me. I'm much happier being squeally! :) But I am (finally) being honest with myself and admitting that Dean and Cas heavy episodes just don't interest me. I mean.. they would if they gave us more than Dean just being all pained and misty eyed and Cas being less pained and mysterious. (but I figure that's just the way I'm reading it...I'm sure those that wanted that must have love it.*g*).

And *phew* not just me seeing the caricature Mama. I absolutely LOVED her the first time we met her. The dialogue was witty and sharp. But in this is just didn't feel "real" and forced.

I going to try not to be pissed at show. Just pissed at show for making me pissed tonight.


15th-Nov-2012 03:48 pm (UTC)
I didn't actually see the episode yet, but I couldn't resist.

The demons&angels arc bores me into a coma for years now. I was so happy when S6 and especially S7 turned away from it. I really adored the leviathan arc, because it was new mythology. I have never been more disappointed than when they returned to angels&demons at the end of S7 to prepare for S8. :(

And word about everything you say about Dean&Castiel. For me it's a relationship that is all about telling instead of showing. It always feels like the writers take a shortcut with the character and his relationships on the show, they never really took the time to develop the relationship properly - even less so Cas' relationship with Sam - and hence I have troubles even believing they are friends. I have already resigned myself to the fact that the writers will probably return Dean and Castiel to being friends, although the whole betrayal storyline from S6/7 was never really resolved between the characters.
15th-Nov-2012 04:10 pm (UTC)
Oh wow...hey you. Hee... it's funny we've just got to know each other and we are sharing the same feels. ;)

I loved the leviathan arc because of that very reason. I also loved Dick and that there was at least an attempt to make a comment about modern day consumerism. And yeah.. it gave us a break from the angel and demons.

And yes re Dean 'n Cas and Sam 'n Cas. I totally want to SEE Dean and Cas's relationship. I want to be on board with that. I love me some bromance but it's all so surface. I feel like they've made the Dean and Benny friendship stronger in a few eps than they've shown us of Dean and Cas in HEAPS of eps.

And I am always fascinated with the Sam and Cas connection but it's always skirted around. There's such a connection there (in terms of Cas being the one who pulled his body out of the cage, the one to remove the wall and the one to save his sanity) but that is rarely explored. I can even go with Team Free Will (a bit), when it's actually that.

And er...you haven't seen it yet? Maybe my negative response will make it more positive for you. :) I think Bitten was better for me because everyone was so negative about it before I saw it..;)

I'll be keen to know what you think. ;)

15th-Nov-2012 03:56 pm (UTC)
After episodes I don't like, I just go on Tumblr and suddenly everything is pretty again!
15th-Nov-2012 04:14 pm (UTC)
Ack! But it will be swamped with Cas and Dean pretty and that just might make me cry EVEN MORE! (Hee..in fact, I almost DID go to Tumblr but the thought of all the "NO MAN IS LEFT BEHIND" stuff will probably make me throw my laptop across the room).


I shall read some fic and all will be well again. :))
15th-Nov-2012 04:00 pm (UTC)
before I read it in full, I have to say that is a lot of things to say for an episode that bored you so much. hee.

I am not thrilled about this one either, I blame it on my little Sam-gal heart. But I do love bits and pieces of it. Especially Mrs. Tran. She is really fun. Her lines are not the best, and some of them are really cringe-worthy, but she is just so bull-headed and used to get her way that it's actually fun.
15th-Nov-2012 04:18 pm (UTC)
HA! I KNOW!! hence... "passion". I honestly wish I could just say..."I didn't like that" and be done with it. But man, I felt like ranting tonight...*laughs* I was bored and therefore pissed! *g*

I do like the idea of Mrs Tran. So very much. I suppose I just want her to be real again. It might just be my overall dissatisfaction with the ep that made me not connect with her this time. But I do like her. I really hope we get some depth. A bit like we got with Ellen. (Maybe it's just me identifying with motherly characters. *g*)

15th-Nov-2012 04:17 pm (UTC)
Oh, Ash!!! {{{{{{Ash}}}}}}} I really hope the next 3 eps are full to the brim of everything you love about SPN and have you squeeing from the roof-tops, cos I really don't want you to get to the stage of not wanting to watch anymore. That would be a sad day indeed :-(

I totally agree with you about the complete lack of any reference to what the boys went through last week and the fact that with the episode packed to overflowing with secondary characters (Cas, Crowley, The Trans) Sam really was pushed way, way into the background. I'm surprised we got as much Sam as we did, esp in regards to dialogue exchanges with Cas and the fact that Sam seemed so much more thrilled that Cas was back than Dean was.

Jared's tweet about was he is this ep made a lot more sense after seeing this. I was really worried that Sam would be completely absent when we saw only Dean in the Impala at the beginning. I really thought we'd be seeing more Sam-centric eps this season but I guess I was wrong.

I didn't hate it as much as you clearly did. For me, Bitten is still the low-point of the season so far but this ep was certainly a let-down after the amazing brother-focussed one we had last week.
15th-Nov-2012 04:38 pm (UTC)
Oh hey hun! You're up late like me! (better off to bed or tomorrow will be a right off..*g*)

That would be a sad day indeed :-(

Whaaaaa...it will be so sad. I have never felt so, um, uninterested in what's going on in an ep as I did this one (well, Reading is Fundamental came close...).

See... I don't mind Sam light episodes if Sam not being there is important or significant (like The End). Sam was there but he just wasn't...there. He was (to me I have to say!) a cardboard fill in. I don't mean his acting but he just had nothing to do in that ep except fuss after Dean and read off the computer.

Jared's tweet about was he is this ep made a lot more sense after seeing this.

Oh? What did he tweet? Was he taking some time off?

For me, Bitten is still the low-point of the season so far

See, for me, at least Bitten was interesting in terms of its ideas and filming and notion of POV and homage etc. I wasn't at least bored during that one. (dizzy maybe...;D)

I will not leave if Show gives me Sam and Dean. If it decides to be about Dean and Cas with Sam riding shotgun (for whatever "good" reason...) I will be outta here. I will be happy for those it suits but that just won't be me.

And the more we go on the more I'm feeling that Sam-centric episodes will be a mere "wish".

I think I might be finally folding and believing that Sam might not matter this season. It's pretty much been all about Dean so far so yeah... after this one I'm being a little more resigned than I had been up till now. But we shall see. we are only up to 8.07 so there's a heap more to come yet. ;DD
15th-Nov-2012 04:20 pm (UTC)
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{MY BUDDY ASH}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

If you ever need to rant at me or with me, be my guest!

I know how impossible it is to be calm about Sam and Dean (at least for me); I just love them so much. (Hee, that sounds totally unbalanced, but about them, I am!)

Edited at 2012-11-15 04:24 pm (UTC)
15th-Nov-2012 07:05 pm (UTC)
Oh, yeah! another unbalanced Sam and Dean girl! We can form a club. ::grins:: I love them so much I'm pretty sure it's not rational.
15th-Nov-2012 04:31 pm (UTC)

I feel you, man. The last Crowley- & Tran-heavy episode was the one that made me rage quit (8.02), so I am right there with you. But I'm really sorry that you're feeling it, too. {{{{}}}}

I haven't watched since I realized this season was going to make me an insane person, but I've been reading a few people's reaction posts, because a part of me still hopes that something will happen to make it so that I can come back. I don't want to feel so angry and disappointed and rage-y. You're one of the people whose posts I've been reading, because I wanted to hear the positive things and sort of keep my eye on what's happening, without getting too close to it, if you know what I mean. Anyway, I agree with every single thing you said here—not in regard to this episode specifically, obviously, but in regard to the overall show direction.

Really just a hug of empathy and understanding. {{{{}}}}
15th-Nov-2012 07:09 pm (UTC)
part of me still hopes that something will happen to make it so that I can come back. me too!!!! But i get needing to be removed when it's all bad feelings. :(

I can't say I've hated things up to now and I feel this ep. was poorly thought out, written and directed. I think we've seen some reasons for hope and some really nice S&D interactions, but I also see why people are upset.
15th-Nov-2012 04:32 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it was a Castiel episode. One of the issues I have with Castiel is that he tends to take over the plot. I don't think they've forgotten about Sam and Dean's problems - they just put everything on hold for Castiel. I have no interest in Castiel, so I hope he gets hauled off to angel prison or something really quickly.

Castiel episodes often feel like I'm watching a completely different show, aimed at people who like different things than I do.

And speaking of smart. We knew the witch was going to be bad yeah? So all that stuff was a complete and utter waste of time.

That subplot was awkward. I wanted her to surprise me. I mean - she's a witch. A witch who was concerned about going to hell and decided to strike back might be an interesting and morally grey character. But the whole framing of the thing was 'Comic misunderstanding with a side order of bloodshed!' so I can't say I was surprised.

I don’t mind Crowley in small (and I mean SMALL!) doses. I always think badies are best mysterious.

I like Crowley well enough, but then I've always been pro-demon. :) But I do have issues with the way he's being used. I don't think Crowley works as an open antagonist. That worked for Azazel and Lilith - they were zealots. Crowley is a manipulator - King of the Crossroads. He's never been given to making enemies openly unless pushed. When he was briefly forced into that role in season six, he got himself out of it as quickly as possible by faking his death. Now he's volunteering for the part of moustache-twirling villain?

I agree that Crowley works best in small doses, but I think that's because he's designed that way. He's the man who could be on anybody's side, who appreciates the value of being civil. He's not supposed to be capering about like Azazel 2.0, now with extra gore.

But I just can’t see why Dean and Cas are friends. Why? I really need someone to explain that to me.

No, I don't get it either. I can understand Dean's determination to get Castiel out as part of his 'Must! Save! Everyone!' (except possessed people) philosophy, but I don't think they have much in common. Every now and then Sam and Dean get drunk together, or have a good laugh about something, and heaven knows they're forever doing that thing where they have conversations with their eyes. It makes sense that they're friends as well as brothers. But Dean and Castiel only seem to have two settings: 1) talking about the epic specialness of their relationship and 2) comic misunderstandings because Castiel never actually understands a word Dean says. It's odd.

The reminder of the "perspective" theme was good. Dean remembered it one way – Cas gave him the “truth”. (So I wonder how much "truth" Dean isn't remembering?)

I liked the theme, but the execution felt clunky to me. It required Dean to forget things he knows. He's repeatedly noted that he feels guilty about everything ever, and knowing that doesn't help him stop feeling it. So the big mystery of 'Why does Dean feel bad about leaving Castiel behind?' was weird. Because feeling like shit is Dean's default setting. Duh.

One last thing. (*yikes* back to negative) Cas is on call for the boys - which is great of course because as soon as they are in danger they just have to call on Cas to save them.

Yeah - another big problem with Castiel. For about half a second, I was impressed with Kevin's torture scene. Kevin's not in every episode and a lost finger is a small enough injury that they might be able to sustain it. It's horrible, but it's real. People get hurt. But no, Castiel is back so we'll be gluing that sucker right back on.

And on top of that he won't remember his "reporting back" so he's "betraying" them which will play into Dean's betrayal issues and.

Oh, I did get one good thing out of this. I knew Alfie's little spiel about Castiel meaning well was rubbish. Wanting to use him as a mole makes much more sense for the angels. They had to get Dean to tell them where he was so they could fetch him and brainwash him. That was a nice moment of triumph for me.

But - yeah. I don't think I have your level of outrage about the episode, because once it was clear this was the Castiel show, I was pretty sure I'd be writing this one off.
15th-Nov-2012 06:30 pm (UTC)
Oh, I did get one good thing out of this. I knew Alfie's little spiel about Castiel meaning well was rubbish. Wanting to use him as a mole makes much more sense for the angels. They had to get Dean to tell them where he was so they could fetch him and brainwash him. That was a nice moment of triumph for me.

I can not express my rage that Cas was given up front his get out of jail free card by telling us straight out that he is only doing this because he is brainwashed. While over in the other corner we have Sam not even looking for Dean because he didn't care enough to. Even if they make Sam brainwashed, it will be too little too late. They have already established and repeated the idea for too long that Sam just doesn't care.
15th-Nov-2012 04:41 pm (UTC)
Ooohh... :(




16th-Nov-2012 02:46 am (UTC)
I'M SO SORRY HONEY! I know you would have loved that one. I did TRY to like it but it just wouldn't LET ME!!!

*HUGS* I'm far to invested! (but you knew that already hey?!)



15th-Nov-2012 04:54 pm (UTC)
Will be skipping this one! You know, this 'you pre-screening the episodes for me' thing is really working - enjoying the season oh, so much more, this way. ;)

16th-Nov-2012 02:44 am (UTC)
Hee! I hope I don't make you miss ones you'll like. But yeah...you won't be missing much, In a nutshell....

Crowley tortured and was generally awful to a lot of innocent people so he could get someone to read the tablet (something about kidnapping future prophets). Mrs Tran was stupid so they were found and Kevin got whisked away. Mom fought off the demon and wasn't killed.

Kevin had his finger cut off (totally gruesome) and so he read the tablet and it was confirmed (I think) about hell's gates. In the end I have no idea what that was even all about.

Um... Dean got out of Purg with Benny (which we knew) and Dean felt guilty because he didn't have the strength to pull Cas out. It TURNS OUT that Dean remembered it wrong! REVEAL! Cas actually pushed Dean out and chose to stay he because he wanted to be punished some more for all his sins. Dean can stop feeling guilty about at least that now.

Lot's of meaningful eyes at each other. Sam was happy to see Cas. Dean didn't trust him - so more meaningful discussions.

Ooh and....IMPORTANTLY....Cas is now a double agent. He's allowed to go when the boys call but he'll be reporting stuff back to another angel (I should get her details but I think I had fallen asleep by then). Not really sure why.

Sam felt bad for Dean. No one cared about Sam.

The end.


(I'm sure you didn't want the summing up but I figure if you're going to miss it on my account I should fill you in on all those important details. :DDD)
16th-Nov-2012 04:17 am (UTC)
I too have been generally enjoying S8. It's had a promising start and as it progresses I am just beginning to get really worried that that is all we are going to get. I mean... there HAS to be more to Sam's story....surely. Or if not, I am at least hoping that there is some acknowledgement that that's it.

I keep thinking that I might not mind Cas so much if they didn't keep side lining Sam whenever he is in the ep. I think that's been the knock on effect of my Cas grumbles.

I keep saying I will be patient, so I will. For a few eps more at least. ;)

It might be a good thing that there's a break next week...;)

15th-Nov-2012 05:57 pm (UTC)
Haha, this is the way you rant? Oh my. You should read my ranting. :D

I did like the episode. Well y'know in the like way where I'm never gonna watch it again and it ranks at the end of my favorite episodes list. But I've seen worse - seen way better too of course. LOL

I hoped for a reference to last week's episode. But when have they ever done that? I guess they think men are men and don't talk about things like what happened.

I did really like the little brotherly moments, like Sam's hand on Dean's shoulder and sleeping turned towards him.

And I have to admit that I wanted to wrap Dean up in my arms because of all the self-esteem issues and guilt that's not his that he's carrying around. But the conversation in the end with Cas fall flat for me. Maybe it's because I don't feel their connection, either. Those two will always be a mystery to me.

I hope it'll get back to episodes like last week again. The boys still have some much issues to 'talk' about and I want that.

And I agree with you, if it's a Cas heavy episode Sam is barely in it. I really don't know why. But I guess it has to do with satisfying the other shippers on the show. :/

There's no epi next week if I'm right, so I guess we have two weeks time to get back in the mood. :)
15th-Nov-2012 06:32 pm (UTC)
I hoped for a reference to last week's episode. But when have they ever done that? </i? The last time was 3 episodes in Bitten where they discussed the Mayan God MOTW, because THAT was important and Sam and Dean, not so much.
15th-Nov-2012 06:13 pm (UTC)
I try so hard to stay positive for the Castiel fans, I don't dislike him but I don't find him "essential" to the show overall in the way Sam and Dean obviously are. I did like that Cas claimed he needed to do penance in purgatory, but disliked that he was the ONLY one who seemed to remember that.

I have felt Cas and Dean's friendship felt forced in the past, but it REALLY stood out to me last night. Sure, Cas got Dean out of hell YEARS ago, and it seems Dean still carries around some heavy sense of obligation for that and didn't want to leave him in Purgatory. *yawns* Anyway, circling to this episode, I'm still not buying them. Although I did see hints that Dean is cautious about Cas, rightly so since Cas is basically a double-agent now. Against his will, perhaps, but still.

While I'm as hesitant as Sam is about Dean's friendship with Benny, I agree that they've shown much more and sold it better than they have Dean and Cas this season. I'd much rather see Benny than Cas this season, TBH. Or maybe some Cas and Benny scenes, that could be interesting? IDK, they'd probably just fight over Dean and that could get old fast. /never mind.

Not much Sam this episode, but I did like the nod to the fact that they've at least talked with each other about the past year. Sam said that Dean had done everything he could, I'm assuming that was because they'd talked. It was still a slightly awkward moment and I left feeling a bit hollow over it. I would've like a bit more acknowledgment over Sam's own survivor's guilt.

And while I still love the Tams and I'm glad that they get to hang out with Garth, yeah -- they overdid mom just a tad in this episode. I did think finding a witch on craigslist was rather hilarious though.

At the beginning of the season I was VERY worried about a return to the angels and demons storyline. While I'm not quite as disappointed as I feared I would be, I do feel it's all a bit of fan service to keep Castiel important to the plot line. Good or bad, because I do generally like Cas - I still think it's a bit of an excuse to keep him around. Crowley is also a fan favorite and surprisingly is around a lot this season, too. :|

On the other hand, I am a bit interested in Naomi as she seems to be a different breed of angel ((also I adore the actress like whoa, so I admit to being ENTIRELY biased here)) and there was some stuff in Kevin's translation of the tablet to Crowley that I need to revisit because it sounded important?
I guess I'm still hopeful that it'll have a new twist.

*crossing my fingers for the next set of episodes*
16th-Nov-2012 11:40 am (UTC)
Dean still carries around some heavy sense of obligation for that and didn't want to leave him in Purgatory.

Aah..I didn't make that connection. Cool. I wasn't exactly sure where that all came from - I assumed that he sees Cas as a friend and didn't like the idea of leaving him behind. But maybe that sense of obligation runs deep.

The Sam and Dean moments were nice. I did like sam's reassurances to Dean. Unfortunately my head was still in last weeks ep (probably from all the discussion I had about it..;D) so I just wasn't ready for Sam to be like that. But good for him. He took it on the chin and....i dunno...either buried it or just coped with it all very well.

I guess I'm still hopeful that it'll have a new twist.

Yeah...I'm hopeful for a twist too. Someone in the thread suggested that Sam might have been "brainwashed" by Naomi too. So he doesn't remember stuff from the past year...or maybe what's in his head didn't really happen after all. I don't know how I'd actually feel about that, but at least it might give us something extra from Sam's gap year. :)

15th-Nov-2012 06:56 pm (UTC)
I agree with nearly everything you've said here. I blame a lot of it on the director. I think he didn't do his job except in the special effects part. Apparently he's new, so I'm putting this down to a not thoughtfully written episode (it felt like they shoved everything into one ep. that they need to move the season along.) The pacing would have been much better if the Cas stuff was in an earlier episode instead of some of the earlier boring purgatory moments, but that is one of the problems of episodic TV. :(

Dean's make-up in purgatory - what the hell? Up until now I've enjoyed the purgatory visuals and that was awful. I also think some of the clunky acting can be placed with the director. I thought Mrs. Tran was pretty bad up until she took on the demon (I did like that part - it made sense in terms of who she was and was the only time I felt like she was the same person we've seen in earlier eps.) I thought Jensen had some nice moments - a couple of really exceptional ones, but it was hard to feel it in the light of everything else.

I loved Dean looming over Sam on the computer, as well as the touching and seeming in tune with Dean. (I think that does hark back to earlier eps. this season and fits in ways that would take longer than a comment box to go into. :) I am not surprised that stuff from last ep. was dropped. That is typical and will likely come back at the least opportune moment to create conflict. (Personally I would rather the conflict was external rather than between S&D.)

I know I won't quit show and I suspect this was an awful ep. (which happens ine very season) I am also tired of the angels/versus demons BS. That's not the show I want to see. (It would have been much more interesting to me to have the angels gone and Crowley as the big bad, with a small side of powered down/lost/ineffective Cas. although bad ass Cas was awesome - i just don't think there's room for him in this show, in that form on a regular basis)

All totalled, bad ep., but hoping things will swing back around to what we've seen with rest of show.

ETA: I should apologize for thread jumping all over your post. So tell me to knock it off it is bugs you. :)

Edited at 2012-11-15 07:16 pm (UTC)
16th-Nov-2012 11:48 am (UTC)
Hi. I'm putting it down to the director also. If he's knew I suppose there is that. The effects were pretty impressive. And I usually put bad acting (or noticeable acting) down to the director also.

I should have been totally prepared for the last ep not to be mentioned at all. It just really threw me. They very seldom directly link one ep to the next (unless they have made a point about it like Sam meeting Benny). I must go back over those scene between Sam and Dean to search out more. I spent too much time waiting for something to happen in connection to the past stuff.

I can't imagine actually quitting the show. I was just saying to a friend that it was suddenly understanding where those who have quit the show are coming from. If this is there level of dissatisfaction with every episode then I can imagine how hard it would be to stay positive.

But. I am hoping to remain positive. I will be worry for the next ep - but I usually am these days, so nothing different really.

And of course I don't mind you jumping in to chat on threads! I love that. And I love that about LJ. Discussions happen here and it's one of my fav things about being in fandom. So FEEL FREE!! <33
15th-Nov-2012 07:00 pm (UTC)
"It was as if that incredibly important, powerful moment between them didn’t even happen."


Someone needs to write a fic about how Sam went from totally pissed off to mellow, please...

It shouldn't feel so hard to come up with justifications for what the characters are doing. Sigh. But it's not our story to tell. Someone (Carver?) thinks what they are giving us makes sense. I don't think anyone actually involved with the scripts 'gets' what the show is about anymore: Sam and Dean being brothers. And coherent character development. Sigh.

I think this hurts more because last week had such promise...
16th-Nov-2012 11:58 am (UTC)
Someone needs to write a fic about how Sam went from totally pissed off to mellow, please...

That would be nice. Either Sam has just buried it (along with other stuff he's buried) or he's just coping very well. He took it on the chin and that's that. It will just seem weird if they pick that up again next episode (or another one) after him being so mellow in this ep.

I think this hurts more because last week had such promise...

That could be it also. On the back of such an intense brother ep this one paled. So yeah... maybe if it had been somewhere else it might not have bored me so much.

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