Yesterday was a day of SPN! \o/ I spent the day with the lovely redteekal
and we talked all things S8 (and re-watched a couple of S8 eps). I need to jot some of it down because we sorted it all out!! ;D
There's a lot of scattered thoughts here. It's my attempt to capture some of yesterday's discussion but also it works as a reflection on S8 so far. It's not negative, it's just musing about some of the unanswered and problematic moments in S8. I know I'm probably flogging a dead horse - it's likely all been said before (and over and over), but I want to get it out of my system before Act II commences. (Lots of points under the cut. I don't claim we answered these for everyone but it certainly helped me).
We didn't sort it ALL out of course. But airing some grievances certainly helped put things in perspective and I've come away with a better outlook and a somewhat rejuvenated perspective.
Some things we talked about...S8 ain't perfect.
Somehow saying that out loud helps. Especially to someone as positive and enthusiastic as redteekal
. Having her agree that there were plenty of lame moments helped. But the reminder that there were plenty of awesome moments too helped even more!
The very act of nutting out some of the inconsistencies and issues rising from S8 make it easier to kind of bundle up the things that weren't working and develop some healthy head canon. We acknowledged that Show really hasn't answered (or dealt with) some really important questions so we worked them out. Fans can find a reason for anything if they want to.;DUnresolved or seemingly inconsistent plot points:* Why Sam didn't look for Dean.
This is my biggest issue this season. And to be honest there isn't a good answer for this one. I mean WE, the fans, have fantastic reasons why this could
have happen. Having been with Sam for 8 years now and seen what he's been through we can certainly understand WHY Sam may have run away and not looked for Dean. The trouble is the show didn't give us much of that at all. According to a tweet by a show writer Sam was actually following "family policy". And in the show Sam says his world "imploded". We didn't get to actually see that, so we have to take his word that he was such a mess and so alone that the mere thought of trying to find Dean escaped him.
Personally I can't see it but it's now canon so I have to make it work.
We re-watched Hunter Heroici and of all the Sam flashbacks these one, I think, are the best. It comes the closest to understanding where Sam's head was at. He says he lost someone and ran. This suggests that he thought Dean was dead ("You're... freakin' alive" he says in 8.01 suggests that also). Thinking that Dean is dead is the only plausible reason I can come up with that Sam didn't look. If he thinks Dean died then it makes sense that he followed this so called "family policy" and not try to bring him back from the dead. Nothing but trouble comes from doing that and maybe Sam not trying can be seen as a grown up move.
The argument is of course that without a body there's no way Sam would no for sure that Dean died (and probably a million other arguments) but it seems that's the way they played it so...yeah. Sam moved on because he had no alternative.
Another argument we came up with is that Sam was so messed up he just ran away (this is also mentioned in 8.09). He couldn't face the loss of Dean and his friends so he completely blocked it all out.
We have no timeline for Sam's past year but I'm going to guess that 8.01 started just after Don returned. He's lurking outside their house (shadowy figure) and Sam decides to make a break and leave while Amelia is sleeping (he does tell her he's leaving but leaves it until night to do so. - to avoid the final confrontation maybe?)
We know that they had JUST moved into the house they got together. They were still unpacking when Amelia got the call that Don was still alive. It can't have been long after that that we get the scene of Sam asking Amelia to stay with him (Citizen Fang) and then says he is leaving. We have no idea how long they were seeing each other before they got the house in Kermit (probably doesn't matter).
The thing is. He drove ALL THE WAY from Kermit, Texas to Whitefish, Montana (1170 miles as the crow flies) to return to the cabin. We are never told WHY he went to the cabin but a tweet from...ack, can't remember who...Jim Michaels maybe?... confirmed it was to clear his head - take some time out.
This means he COULD HAVE made the decision at that point to either return to hunting (the cabin being a link to the world he left behind) or maaaaybe
to start looking for Dean. He's obviously avoided the place all this time so maybe...MAYBE...he was sick of running and was ready to get back in the game (that's my head canon anyway). We are never told so really we could make that be anything.
Soooo many ideas with this whole story line. I think we each have our own ideas (disappointments) with that one. I still hope we get more (Dean disappearing again and seeing what Sam would do this time) but I think that might be it.* Why Dean left Cas in Purgatory
We wondered if Dean thought that Cas had died after he managed to crawl out. Dean did say that Cas "didn't make it" so Dean probably thought Cas had died in Purgatory. The interesting thing here (and something that never played out) is that Dean essentially reacted the same way to Cas not making it to Sam's reaction to Dean being gone. He ignored it (other than the lingering guilt). He didn't attempt a rescue or even look into it.
The other thought is that Dean absolutely knew there was no way to get him out so left it at that. It's probably a shame that the connection was never made. Dean may have had an easier time understanding Sam's actions if he reflected on his own - maybe.* How Castiel can find Sam and Dean with the sigils on their ribs
We figured that when Sam came back from hell the sigils were removed (like Dean came back "re-hymenated). As for Dean's.... well, um...let's say at some point in Purgatory Cas removed the sigils on the ribs so he could find Dean in Purgatory. *nods* Sounds good to us.* Why Sam is so anti Benny
This is a tough one because previous canon tells us that Sam sees shades of grey and he has been sympathetic to vamps in the past. He would also be happy that someone helped Dean out of Purgatory. So there's two ideas here. 1) Sam hasn't had the benefit of getting to know Benny and therefore can't make a good judgement and 2) Sam worries that Dean's experience in Purgatory has clouded his judgement and is concerned he is being taken for a ride. After all, Sam knows what that it like from his experience with Ruby. Jealousy also plays a part, as does Sam remembering that Dean killed Amy after Sam pleaded her case. I think there's plenty of solid reason for this one. * Why Dean used Amelia in danger as a lure for Sam
At the time he didn't realise the impact it would actually have on Sam. In the heat of the moment (and fear for Benny) he wasn't thinking about Sam's past loves. And he may not have realised just how in love Sam was. After all, he didn't have the benefit of the flashbacks. He knows nothing about Amelia really. (and considering we DID see the flashbacks I don't think we even knew how in "love" Sam was). He knew he made a mistake and genuinely apologized in the next ep.* Why Mrs Tran went from being gutsy and competent to caricature and silly
Change of writer. ;)* Why demon and angel tablets
Aaahhhh. This was a big discussion point. Season 1-5 had a definite story/myth arc. Kripke had a 5 year plan and it involved angels and demons. Season 6-7 moved slightly away from the demon and angel story line but not completely. We wondered if Carver might be shaping the next 3 seasons by returning the show to a full on demon and angel myth arc and thus preparing, in some way, for a conclusion. As much as some fans (including me) have moaned about demons and angels they have ALWAYS been part of the Supernatural Universe. Taking them away would be like removing 7 years of universe building. The tablets introduce a way of shutting the gates of heaven and hell forever so it's something the Winchesters will have an invested interest in. They need to have a continued invested interest. As much as I said these weren't that interesting to me I think I've adjusted my thinking - remembering SPN is grounded in this mythology.* Why Sam and Dean are somewhat douchey this season
ha! *ducks tomatoes* Come on! They are kinda douchey. Their petty jealousies and their nastiness to each other have created some pretty low moves on both of their parts. They also seem less motivated to save innocent lives (or at least demon and angel vessels). They're not exactly unblemished heroes any more. And why should they be? They've been through the mill. The thing is, it is still about The Epic Love Story of Sam and Dean and part of that epic love is being blinded by it and being kinda stupid in their reactions to each others new friend. They have never been perfect and I am confident that we are still in the middle of them arriving at a better place - both emotionally and psychologically.* Why Crowley doesn't just kill Sam and Dean
There wouldn't be a show if he did. I would love to have an actual reason but,nah...coming up blank on that one. We did ponder that they are more useful to him alive but, yeah. That's it.* Why Cas keeps changing his, er... persona
This is a really tricky one. I'm not exactly a Cas expert. Personally I think Cas is more solid this season than he's been (to me) before (other than when it was "team free will"). Mostly I think they keep trying to find a way for Cas to fit. Sometimes he's the comic relief but they balance that with actually trying to develop his character as the series progresses.
He's a tricky character because he's all powerful but they can't always have him like that. Too many easy solutions to problems etc. He's been on a path to redemption and now he's going to have to fight to regain his free thinking. I think something interesting could come of this. I definitely like that there seems to be more of a connection between Sam and Cas, which seems natural to me because they share so much (Lucifer being one of them...and turning bad).* Who was the shadowy figure outside Sam's place in 8.01.
Don. Hence the outsider POV shots in Citizen Fang (which answers that question for me too). It's pretty clear that Carver went into the season with the idea that Sam's new life would present him with a major decision. The catalyst for this was the return of Don. (Carver also said this mystery would be answered in 8.10. Even though it wasn't directly answered there really isn't anyone else it could be). I think Don was also meant to be a mirror to Dean. Don returns and Amelia has to make a choice between him and Sam. Dean returns and Sam has to make a choice between Amelia and Dean. Amelia loses. Dean wins.* Why the cheesy Crowley zoom in 8.10
Still haven't figured this one. But this video on "cheesy zooms" is awesome! I'm not sure why Singer chose that moment to use this device (especially as the warehouse filming was so cool, stylish and slick), but there it is. Perhaps it was fun, maybe it lent itself to some of the cheesiness of the ep (a kind of acknowledgement by the director), maybe it was to alert the audience that "this is important!. Major reveal ahead!" :D (vid linked to me by bowtrunckle
)*Why Sam slept with a married woman/ Amelia cheated on her husband
I think this has caused a bit of a stir. I don't think we had a great answer to this one. Maybe to set up a plot point in the future? (are we going to be getting preggy Amelia?) Maybe Sam knows he's been sleeping with a married woman all this time so one more time won't matter? Maybe it just wasn't an issue. Maybe they just couldn't help themselves. *g* Infidelity is probably the least of Sam's worries in this stage of his life (and maybe Amelia's?). Tricky one...*Why Amelia wasn't instantly likeable.
Actually, I don't think we discussed this much but it's something that I find really curious. They could have made Amelia someone like Lisa (or Jess, Sarah, Madison), but instead we had someone who had issues and was a bit, um, snarky. I think the point was "let's us be messes together" (from Hunter Heroici). Sam's not all that perfect (well, I think he is...;D), so maybe it was about not giving us a cliched "perfect" woman for Sam. But rather someone he could bond with over their mutual losses - warts 'n all. (and I could totally buy that if we had the chance to feel
that bond. They didn't really pull that off, but I think the idea was there).
By the end I did feel for her. The Winchesters are not men you want to get involved with (and if anyone has the perfect song to reflect the ...um...damage...the Winchesters have done to the women they have met I'd love to know!!! Vid idea with no song....). Maybe in some sort of hindsight they were two lost people who were never going to make it. Tragic lovers almost. We knew it and we just had to watch them discover that.* Why we keep watching.
Ha!! Now there's the question! We will each have our own reasons for either watching or not. Spending a day chatting about the show and discussing the characters I love makes me realise how invested I still am. Sure, I'm pretty disappointed in the story arc for the boys so far, but with some adjusted head canon, an upbeat chat and the knowledge that there's more to come I can still find things to enjoy. (and also.... THEY ARE BLOODY HOT!) So yay! I shall survive this season... (I hope!! *G*)
While I'm here have a rec! missyjack
had the wonderful opportunity to interview Mark Meloche, who is the Visual Effects Supervisor on Supernatural. It's a great interview and it gives you a real insight on some of the behind the scenes stuff. Check it out here
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