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curled around these images
just enough to make us dangerous
A mixed bag of stuff I just wanna say... 
3rd-Mar-2013 10:38 pm
Discussion / no weapons discharge
I had a lovely afternoon with cupidsbow today (yay! another WA vidder!) we chatted all things vidding and I'm excited to be part of a vidding panel at SwanCon.

She shared a vid that was made for her for festivids and IT IS AMAZING!!! SERIOUSLY! You HAVE to watch this vid. (It was recced to me earlier but I had only got a chance to watch it today).

Staying Low by the amazing hollywoodgrrl. The footage is from the Alien films and it will BLOW. YOU. AWAY.

I saw a heap of other awesome vids which I will share if I can get my act together. I am playing catch up with a number of things at the moment. /o\

I watched Amour last night. One of the most amazing and affecting films I think I have ever seen. No wonder it won the Palme d'Or and the Oscar for Best Foreign Film. It's absolutely beautiful - beautifully directed and acted. It's also incredibly heartbreaking and painful. The title is perfect for the subject matter. I couldn't stop hugging my husband after watching this. I recommend it to anyone who likes stories that explore the human condition.

Watched eps of Arrow (I'm getting all the Oliver and Tommy feels now...<33), Haven (an ep that reminded me of Mystery Spot (Groundhog Day). It was wonderfully constructed and I was having all the Nathan, Duke and Audrey feels) and the latest ep of Spartacus (just when I thought it couldn't get any more brutal...*guh*. It was hard to watch, but still amazing).

And now...

Dear Flisties,

I love you all and I hate seeing you hurt. Please stay away from that insidious anon non-community (I can't call it a community because that word suggests something positive) because it can only end in tears. I get that there might be a place for speaking anonymously but by the sheer nature of being able to do so enables trolls and people who like to stir up trouble to comment and sit back with their popcorn and watch the drama (and hurt) unfold.

The problem is that it is immensely popular so I figure there is obviously a place (need?) for it. God knows why as it seems like nothing more than a place to put down fellow fans and say hurtful things about them rather than to them. It seems to go against everything fandom should be about. But *sigh* no amount of ranting or ignoring or talking about how horrible it is makes it go away. The best way to make it go away is to not go there.

I keep hoping it's miraculously disappeared but then I see it's obviously alive and well and doing a fine job being horrible.


PS: If you don't know what I'm talking about LUCKY YOU!

Yay, long weekend! Another day off tomorrow! \o/ I so need it...
3rd-Mar-2013 02:42 pm (UTC)
I've never been over to that comm. Now you have managed to intrigue me. However, I hate drama and nastyness, so I think I will continue to avoid it.
3rd-Mar-2013 02:48 pm (UTC)
I try to avoid posting about it for the sheer fact that by doing so draws attention to it. I get torn between taking my own advice and completely ignoring it (which I do most of the time) or posting a mini rant because it makes my blood boil so.

Looks like my boiling blood won out this time. Unfortunately it is like watching a train crash. Hate what's going on but at the same time fascinated by what's going on. My fascination for it wore off very very quickly and now it just pisses me off.

Continuing to avoid it is the best approach for sure. It does nothing more than leave a nasty taste in your mouth.
3rd-Mar-2013 02:52 pm (UTC)
quickreaver has just confirmed my decision to never go there. I second your letter to your flisties!
3rd-Mar-2013 03:27 pm (UTC)
Good call! :)
3rd-Mar-2013 03:11 pm (UTC)
I was never that much into the Alien movies but the video is awesome and very beautiful (if you can aliens and gore call it that LOL)

I hate that anon place. Stumbled about it when I posted my first BB in 2010, got bashed pretty hard and never went back there. I'm sorry for everyone who ever had to see something like this. No matter how much you tell yourself that it doesn't matter what they say, it still hurts.

And I never know if it's really that popular, of if it's just two or three people posing as more to say nasty things about others.

*goes back to writing her BB*
3rd-Mar-2013 03:30 pm (UTC)
No matter how much you tell yourself that it doesn't matter what they say, it still hurts.

I think that's the thing. I think some fans go in thinking I don't care what they say until they see the hurtful stuff and then they can't erase it. I just think there are more positive places to hang out...;)

And yay BB!! \o/ Can't wait to see what you're writing.
3rd-Mar-2013 03:22 pm (UTC)
I've had a lot of my best discussions in Spn fandom on the anonmeme. A lot of my worst, too, 'tis true -- the place does tend towards extremes (though it's relatively low on Sam vs Dean wank, which is my particular least favorite thing, it does get very unpleasant in the shipping war and bros vs Cas departments). But certainly my meta take on the show would be much, much shallower and narrower without the varied viewpoints there, and I would hate to have missed steampunk clockwork Sam (the result of soulfisting gone wrong), baby walrus Sam, Linda and Dean's wedding planning business, sloth Misha and his smiling muscle man keeper, Dean's grudge book, Misha's psychic cock and Sam's sentient peen, and a whole lot of other wonderful and creative and poignant and cracky things that come out of that place.

As for the discussion of individual fans, I think there's a distinction to be made. I don't like it when it occurs in the main meme posts and when it is about the people rather than about fanworks -- anonymity, to me, is mostly a pretty neutral quality of the meme, rather than a good thing or a bad thing in itself, but I think it becomes uncomfortable and sometimes worse when a group of anonymous people are discussing a named fan. The fic discussion on the designated posts, on the other hand, with a few exceptions, I think serve a very useful function. Their tone is seldom nasty (and when wank does break out there, it's often about things like who tops and who bottoms that and up having only the most tenuous connection to the qualities of the fic under discussion), but it isn't and isn't intended to be primarily concrit for the writers (though I've learned a lot about writing both from those discussions and from general writing discussion on meme). It's a review site for potential readers. And people are going to say different kinds of things about fics there than they would say to the authors even when the things they are saying are positive, because it's a different audience and a different mode of evaluation, just as I'd say different things in the comments on a colleague's manuscript addressed to the colleague than I would if I were reviewing it or submitting a report on it to a journal that was considering publishing it.

In any case, the anon comm is very much a community. Sometimes an angry, contentious faction-ridden community that makes me miserable, almost always a community that has a few name-calling trolls hanging around, but if the measure of the community is the capacity, for all its flaws, to also produce a shared culture and creative developments and provide emotional support and have fun together, it's one of the better ones I've been a part of over the years. [Actually, when I first took to hanging out there, what struck me most was how bizarrely similar it was in its dynamics, both good and bad, to the Chronicle of Higher Education Fora, which is another interwebz hangout of mine. Since that's pseudonymous rather than anonymous, I guess I've never felt that the emphasis in anon meme fell on the anon part for me.]
3rd-Mar-2013 03:54 pm (UTC)
Thank you for your perspective on the place. I suspected there must be more to it than being spiteful and nasty. I think because I only ever see the result of the nasty I imagine that's all it is. I mean, I've seen other threads that I mostly found boring. I really don't like the idea of having a conversation without knowing who I am talking to.

It's great that all those fun things have come out of there. I remember when all that fun stuff was being discussed on someone's actual journal. These days there's less of that so maybe that's the place to go for it. I suppose my feeling is that it's a shame that there isn't a place to have those discussions without it being anonymous (or that there's a "safe" place to go to discuss things anonymously). I totally get that anonymity allows people to express their real thoughts without recrimination - something we do need to be able to do sometimes, as fans can get pretty nasty when real opinions are expressed.

I suppose it's also helpful to read "real" reviews rather than rely on comments to a fic but, Idk, I think there are other ways to go about deciding on what fic to read than read the fic reviews over there.

In any case, the anon comm is very much a community

Yeah, I get that it actually is by the nature of it being a gathering place for fans, but I associate "community" with more of that emotional and fun support you mention. And from what I see come out of there I definitely hadn't associated "fun" and "supportive" with it.

I am glad it's those things also. I figure it has to offer more than being a place to mouth off. I just get so angry and upset when I see people on my flist getting so hurt by comments over there. The sheer nature of what we do (sharing fan works without being paid) makes us non-professional. No money is made so smearing a fan or their works serves no purpose other than to be upsetting. Now, if a fans goes there and asks for honest, anonymous opinions on their work then I can definitely see the value of that. We learn by being told the truth and I know that some people feel more comfortable telling the truth anonymously. But I think unsolicited, negative comments are unwarranted.

Thanks again. I'm happy to hear that there are positives too. ;)
3rd-Mar-2013 03:41 pm (UTC)
That Alien vid, OMFG! *sets hands on fire with friction from unending mad applause* Wow. That is some Ash-class vidding right there -- AMAZING! Thank you for linking this!!

If you don't know what I'm talking about LUCKY YOU!

Alas, I know exactly what you're talking about. That place needs a good salting and burning down, it really does. Or just set Ripley loose over there with a flamethrower, that'll work, too.
3rd-Mar-2013 03:56 pm (UTC)
That is some Ash-class vidding right there -- AMAZING!

Awww, that's a lovely thing to say (<33) but my feeling is I wish I was half that good. Vids like that give me something to aspire to..:)

Or just set Ripley loose over there with a flamethrower

HA! I love your thinking! <33

3rd-Mar-2013 04:16 pm (UTC)
I have not heard o this anon-place until today, and now it is all over my f-list. I am very glad I haven't and I will stay away, seeing some of the hurt and damage it has caused to people I care about.

Alien video was cool! Vidders know the best vids to rec!
3rd-Mar-2013 04:33 pm (UTC)
Yeah - that's one of the problems when posting about it. It draws attention to it, which is the last thing I really want to do. I checked it out ages ago when someone was complaining about it on their journal (about 4 years ago!). I was curious and then found it just wasn't my thing. I get that some people like all the gossip, drama and "honest" thoughts but I like knowing and connecting with actual people.

Alien vid is supper cool. I'll try and get some others recced - it's just finding the time. ;)

3rd-Mar-2013 04:36 pm (UTC)

When I first found it I was fascinated by the content and then I soon got bored. Very repetitive. I get that some like it and I suppose live and let live, but when it starts to hurt people who are awesome and don't deserve it I get kinda pissed.

3rd-Mar-2013 04:24 pm (UTC)
You're in WA? :) :) :)
3rd-Mar-2013 04:28 pm (UTC)
Yep... Perth, Western Australia. You know it?
3rd-Mar-2013 04:42 pm (UTC)
I heard about that anon thing from someone else on my flist. sigh, i guess when someone posts anonymously then they can be dicks?

i've never been there. i just hang out on my flist, looking for new stories to read or to talk about the show :)

i have to run to work, but oooh Aliens and video?? i must watch!!
4th-Mar-2013 11:43 am (UTC)
Oh hi!

Yeah, it's probably best to avoid it. ;)

And the Aliens vid is awesome!

3rd-Mar-2013 05:17 pm (UTC)
What brought on the anon thing? this is the second time TODAY that I saw this, you know, warning friends off anon community.
4th-Mar-2013 12:19 pm (UTC)
Well, quickreaver posted something most recently, but over my time I've seen about 6 or 7 flisties post about being "attacked" over at the anon comm. Usually they go and take a peek to see what's being said and can end up being hurt - because people are free to say whatever they like (which I think is the attraction maybe).

So yeah. When it's someone as lovely as quickreaver it sets people off. I think as horrible as some fans can be there's 10 times more lovely people and feel protective of their own.

3rd-Mar-2013 05:22 pm (UTC)
That vid is so good. It actually reminds me that I haven't seen the movies in a while...

I actually follow the fanfic discussion there and found through that a lot of interestings fics and arts I would have never seen otherwise. Sometimes there are people who take the power of being anon way too serious but most times it's just interesting. I also don't have the problem anymore that I read some long story that sounds interesting and at 60k or 70k there is suddenly one of my squicks that wasn't warned against...
And if there are fics where I have a different opinion? We can agree to disagree. Everybody's taste is different.
4th-Mar-2013 12:27 pm (UTC)
The vid is amazing yes? And I do love the movies (well, the first 2 mostly).

We can agree to disagree.

And that's great. And when it's civilized discussion it can be wonderful. It's a shame fans don't have another forum to discuss fics like that, but I get that it's easier to say truthful stuff when anonymous. I just don't get why it has to descend into attacking people's flaws or weakness - especially when no one is actually paid to do what they do. Or when the person they are talking about isn't able to defend themselves.

Still, it's what makes fandom an interesting place I suppose.
3rd-Mar-2013 05:54 pm (UTC)
Adore you Ash. Just FYI.
4th-Mar-2013 12:28 pm (UTC)
Back at ya sweetie.
3rd-Mar-2013 06:43 pm (UTC)
There is no excuse for an anon meme, in my opinion. No amount of good meta or cracky .gifs is worth seeing people I admire and love (or, heck, strangers) getting knifed in the back and having no recourse to defend them. The toll is too high, the people it drives out of fandom too precious to ever say it has sufficient value to justify the gleeful cruelty and spite. (Milage clearly varies on this.)
3rd-Mar-2013 06:57 pm (UTC)
I can only agree with you on this. Sometimes the good really doesn't outweigh the bad.
3rd-Mar-2013 06:50 pm (UTC)
I trolled it for awhile. It had some rather interesting discussions but like I said, there is no excuse for prettying much bashing and flaming others hard work for sheer enjoyment. This isn't some top best sellers lists where everyone makes fun of fifty shades of gray or something. This is people writing, or doing art, or whatever to have fun not to have their fun turned around on them and being accused of vicious things. I'll never condone being cruel to others EVER seriously.

Have fun with making fun of wank or whatever or having discussions on anon I really don't care about that but I line was crossed when you drag other members of fandom in it just to tear them apart for your sheer enjoyment.

I live by what my mother always said, if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all.
4th-Mar-2013 12:34 pm (UTC)
if you don't have anything nice to say don't say it at all.

Oh, absolutely. It's a shame it has to descend into attacking individual fans, especially, as you say - we do stuff for fun.

3rd-Mar-2013 09:35 pm (UTC)
If the anon comm is the one I'm thinking of, there's actually a lot of show discussion that goes on there. I haven't seen much fan bashing? (But then I don't read all the threads.)
4th-Mar-2013 12:46 pm (UTC)
I sometimes think that it's not people actually going out of their way to "bash" as such, (though I think there is that also) but because honesty can hurt it can be seen as bashing. I don't go there any more (I took a look a few years ago and the same things were being talked about over and over so I lost interest) so I can't say what's actually discussed. All I see is the result of that place and it's always in the form of hurt.
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