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Spoilers baby! (like HEAPS of them...) 
22nd-Jul-2014 09:10 pm
Winchester is Cioming
There's been some pretty juicy spoilers come out over the last few days and I have been itching to chat about them. I have been fluctuating between feeling really excited and being filled with dread.

There's no doubt I WANT to be excited because that's a much happier place to be. So I'm going to try and remain up beat with my comments, but they will be tinged with a certain amount of caution because I feel like I've been pretty burned after the last season.

For those who are not sure if they want to check what the spoilers are, the first cut details what kind of spoilers to expect.

The spoilers contain information on what kind of demon Dean will be, about how long he might be a demon, how Dean feels about being a demon, what Sam will be doing as the season opens, what Sam may have to do to save Dean, how much time has passed from the S9 finale and what role Cas and Crowley will be playing. This obviously only covers the first few episodes.

If you are happy to be spoiled in these things....continue.

Here's a list of links to the spoilers:

Jared talks about Sam, Dean and More (from TV fanatic)
Carver talks about the S10 - Sam, Dean, Crowley and Cas (from TVLine)
More from Jared about what Sam will be up to (from Zap2it)
The type of episode #200 will be (eonline)
More from Carver about Sam and Dean's relationship going into S10 (Zap2it)
Jensen on directing and demon!Dean (Zap2it)

Jensen talks about Dean's relationship to Cas and Crowley in beginning of S10 (this is only part 1 of 3 so still more to come).
Jensen talks about directing ep 10.3 (a little spoilery about demon!Dean but mostly a great insight into his direction</a>

Some thoughts:

I think there are some pretty interesting and exciting teasers here. It's wonderful that Jared, Jensen and Carver have given us a little bit of an idea of what to expect going into S10. I know that it's easy to read too much, or not the right thing in these, but I think it can be fun to speculate what we might be getting (and maybe even moan a little? I think that's ok too).


I am pretty damn excited about Demon!Dean I have to say - not least because it will be nice to see Jensen do something different, something that should be a nice challenge for him. I also really like the idea of the kind of demon Dean will be. He's not possessed, he's aware of who he is and "There’s a real period for Dean of deciding how dark he’s going to be and what kind of demon he’s going to be, because he can’t blame it on anyone else but himself." We could see some great introspection from Dean (without the heavy emotion) and it seems that once he's "un-demonised" he'll still be carrying that part of him around. I would argue that he started carrying that around during S9 and that played a part in creating the demon in the first place (certainly in accepting the Mark) - so this is all very interesting for Dean I think.

The idea that Crowley will not even know how to handle him adds some intrigue. Sounds like they might be besties for a while, but I think demon!Dean with the Mark is going to be a pretty unstoppable force. Hard to know for sure, because we don't know exactly what he'll be up to. What will he do that separates Dean from demon!Dean? Dean's already done some questionable things (including torturing innocent victims of possession), so I'm not sure what direction they take him in. Kill innocent people maybe? We know he'll be having sex so there's that to look forward to! (and I reckon, like soulless!Sam, we'll see a different side to Dean -possibly less caring...). I am fascinated by this "new character" (as Jensen says) and look forward to seeing how this plays out.


It's probably no surprise that it's Sam's storyline that worries me the most. I mean, I am much happier to read "Sam will be frantically looking for his brother" rather than "Sam doesn't even try to look for his brother". I am excited by that (at least we'll see the concern and love shine through) but it's some of those finer details that have my stomach churning.

Firstly though;

This fall, Sam Winchester will find himself in a place he's rarely been over the first nine seasons of Supernatural: he'll be the one to save his demon of a brother.

It's amuses me (and annoys me a little) that Sam is often spoken about as not ever saving Dean. He was the first brother to save the other from certain death. Faith (1.12) saw Sam seek out a faith healer. His actions lead to the death of an innocent man and threatened another. When Dean went to Hell Sam did everything he could to bring Dean back. It started him on a dark path and even though he failed to save Dean, he believed he able to at least revenge what happened to him. It could also be argued that by jumping in the pit Sam saved Dean (and the world) from Lucifer's reign (which promised to be apocalyptic). I realise this refers to the "big" save and I think because Sam didn't save (or even try to save) Dean from purgatory in S8 he's remembered mostly for that I think. It's probably also about the times Sam "failed" to save Dean, rather than those times he actually did.

But this is the line that has me wondering what the hell they are going to make Sam do (and why!!!!???!)

Sam is so invested in finding his brother that it leads him to do some questionable things that will make him and, certainly, the audience wonder which one of these guys is the true monster.

On the one hand this has HUGE potential because it could mirror Dean's "questionable" decision to allow an angel to possess Sam. But I don't get the feeling that it's about that. Carver has never said that Dean make a questionable choice (not that I know of anyway) and the Show never made a point of it last season. So it looks like Sam will be doing something that will be monstrous to the point that we can't tell the difference between him and a demon. That saddens me greatly I have to say. What I love about Sam is his caring nature and that he seems to understand (since S9 anyway) there are some lines you don't cross. I mean, wasn't that at least part of what early S8 and much of S9 was about? It seems the show is saying these boys are not much different to the monsters they hunt. On the one hand that's kind of awesome (how could they be hunters and not be touched by all that evil) but on the other hand...where are the heroes we fell in love with? How long will be have to see this darkness in them? The whole season?

Don't get me wrong. The Slash Fiction (Leviathan) version of the Winchesters was damn sexy and fascinating, but psycho Winchesters might only be fun for a short period of time. Though maybe it takes monsters to hunt monsters.

I just wonder why Dean can't be a demon and Sam just be...well, Sam? Frantic sure, but not having learned anything from their past? But that's the part I will have to wait for. We've seen desperate Sam in the past and in both cases he made questionable choices. In S4 he drank demon blood, slept with a demon and killed an innocent vessel for her blood and in mystery spot seemed very dark and ended up killing "Bobby". As soulless!Sam he actually did attempt to kill the real Bobby. I just wonder what on earth they could have Sam do above those things that make him as much of a monster as Dean? Kill a child? Lead a demon army (ooooh, that might be a nice twist!! And a nice call-back to the beginning).

So, I have mixed feeling about the Sam spoilers. It could be awesome, but to be honest Carver worries me a lot when it comes to Sam. I'm not convinced he has a real handle on him (especially after the Amelia story line, the "not look at all" story line, the "being possessed without any personal trauma" storyline and the "say mean things to Dean as part of a plot device" storyline).

I'm also a bit saddened to find out that the "I'm proud of us" WAS a reconciliation. Carver says the boys reconciled in the finale and their relationship is not on better ground Which, ok, YAY (no idea how that works with demon!Dean), but also...SERIOUSLY?! a whole season of disconnect and a butt load of hurt and 4 words cures it all? (maybe because they are Winchesters we just have to accept that that IS all it takes...) I'm going to assume (and hope) that many of the issues raised in S9 WILL be address a little bit in S10. Please? Not too much to ask is it? At least explore the cost (to each other and others) of their sacrifices for each other.

Other stuff

I'm not tooooo unhappy that Cas seems to be carrying his own storyline - at least for a few eps. Metatron is still around and looks like Cas will be on a quest for his grace. I hope all that will be interesting but it's not part of the story that particularly grips me. I wouldn't mind seeing Cas and Sam work together to help Dean, but it sounds like that's not happening (at least in the beginning). It's bizarre though. They set up Team Free Will and Cas feels that "Sam has his own problems so he can't ask him to help him find his grace". Maybe they could help each other with their respective problems? I am sure their story lines will collide at some point. It will also be very weird if we don't have some reaction from Cas about Dean. As much as I have come to dread anything that means Dean and Cas share a screen (that's another discussion...), it would be strange if Cas doesn't feature somewhere in Dean's troubles.

I always want to go into a season without expectations. I don't want to "hope" for anything because I like to be surprised and not disappointed. But I can't help to want a few things in S10. Mostly that Sam isn't made to do something so horrible that Dean ends up pissed at him (again) or that he has to redeem himself (again), or that what he does to save Dean makes what Dean did to save Sam in S9 pale in significance. But I suppose if that happens fans can have a "real" reason to pile hate on him - rather than just because he spoke out against his treatment (oh shut up. I will always be bitterly bitter about that...;D)

Oh and also? Musical ep? Really? Hehe...oh fandom. You asked for it!

Is it October yet? I can't believe we still have to wait 2 more whole months!!

ETA: ooh, something else I wanted to include because it majorly confused me. This from Carver:

So what's the big theme for the season?

"This might sound mysterious," says Carver, "but to me, Season 9 was about choosing the kind of person you wanted to be, like Cas deciding whether to stay human or become an angel again. I think Season 10 will be about everyone looking up and saying, 'You know what, I am what I am.' We'll see that play out in each and every character."

Um...choosing the kind of person you wanted to be? It felt exactly the opposite to me. All characters were forced to be something they really aren't. Cas - a human, Crowley - a human, Sam- possessed by an angel and Dean - carrying the Mark of Cain without knowing what it really was. I wouldn't have said Cas had much choice at all about remaining human. Well, he could have and died I suppose - so no choice really.

So S10 about "I am what I am"? So - I'm a monster so suck it!

Yeah - I'd rather not take Carver's work on what these seasons are about. I'm not sure if he actually watched them.
22nd-Jul-2014 02:08 pm (UTC)
two more came out last night from Zap2it: Carver and Jensen

All I'm choosing to hear is "LONE WOLF MYSTERY SPOT SAM" and "SASSY DEMON DEAN"
22nd-Jul-2014 02:16 pm (UTC)
. . . your brain, I like how it works. ♥
22nd-Jul-2014 02:14 pm (UTC)
Very much looking forward to demon!Dean. And sex. And questionable actions on his part. Looking forward to this very, very much. :)

Sam is so invested in finding his brother that it leads him to do some questionable things that will make him and, certainly, the audience wonder which one of these guys is the true monster.

Kinda with you on this. On the one hand, it looks as if they're giving Sam more to do than just research and hand-wringing. Look what Dean did in S9 to save his brother (and look how some of fandom reacted to it) -- so maybe S10 will feature Sam doing something equally unpalatable to save HIS brother, mirroring Dean's earlier actions? I'm hoping the "monster" implication is just hyperbole on Jared's part. Hoping. (But, certain fans were calling Dean a monster for what he did to save Sam, so perhaps Jared's got the right idea after all.)

At least Crowley's story is connected to the actual demon!Dean plotline, but I'm still trying to figure out how they're going to work angels and Castiel into the storyline. Unless it's a extraordinarily well-done story (good luck with that), I don't care about Castiel's "quest for his grace." It has nothing to do with the Winchester story and will be yet another side-plot that takes time away from demon!Dean and Sam's quest to save his brother.

Overall, I'm with you. Never giving up on Show. Looking forward to S10, trying to stay positive. Not trusting Carver as far as I can throw him. Definitely not looking forward to more angel shenanigans. But then again, there's demon!Dean and (she adds hopefully) Sam being the one to save him.

IDK, both Jared and Jensen seem to be happy with where the season is going, with the directions their characters are taking, so . . . . maybe we should just wait and see what happens?
22nd-Jul-2014 02:38 pm (UTC)
On the one hand, it looks as if they're giving Sam more to do than just research and hand-wringing.

Yes. Much more than hand wringing, which is awesome. In fact, sounds like he's going to be very busy. Jared describes the opening as more "action" than anything else. *bounces*

I'm hoping the "monster" implication is just hyperbole on Jared's part.

Yeah, though that's coming from Carver. I suspect he likes the idea of either making them even in their nastiness (or questionable decisions) or maybe even one "more evil" than the other. I'm curious to see his direction on this.

It's going to be weird (I think( having Cas off on his grace quest without that involving the boys. I can only imagine some more characters being introduced to help him - or something.

IDK, both Jared and Jensen seem to be happy with where the season is going, with the directions their characters are taking,

Yeah, great to see them both so happy about it all (and no, I'm not going to be cynical and says it's more secure income...;D)

so . . . . maybe we should just wait and see what happens?

WHAT?! I have to be patient?! Boooooooooo

22nd-Jul-2014 02:22 pm (UTC)
There is another interview with Carver up now on Zap2It It gives us some other new spoilers.

I too am really worried about where they will go with Sam. The we won't be able to tell which one is the monster makes me deeply unhappy. It's not like Sam has never done anything bad or dark. The quote makes me feel like if Dean does something bad, then Sam must do something much, much worse just so Dean always looks better than Sam. And I'm so, so sick of that.

I think that the musical episode has potential, so I'm looking forward to that. I don't mind Crowley and Cas getting stories of their own, although I stopped caring about the angels long ago. I do understand that Jared and Jensen want more time off, so having Crowley and Cas in the mix and separate makes sense from that POV.

I totally agree with the WTF over what Carver says was last year's theme.
I thought last year's theme was "I did what I had to" but I guess Carver was writing a different show than I was seeing.

ETA: when I included the link livejournal said it was marked as spam, so I deleted the link and lj is happy.

Edited at 2014-07-22 02:24 pm (UTC)
23rd-Jul-2014 11:48 am (UTC)
Hi. Thanks. I had read that other interview (I have linked it now).

The quote makes me feel like if Dean does something bad, then Sam must do something much, much worse just so Dean always looks better than Sam. And I'm so, so sick of that.

SO much this. I just don't get it. Why can't Dean be evil and Sam have to save him from that in an honorable way? I was SO SO sure that last season was about Sam really understanding that there are lines you don't cross. Clearly it was not about that so now we have Sam who is prepared to do a WORSE thing than Dean did at the beginning of last season. And possibly even worse that anything demon!Dean will do. Oh well, if they want to have the boys competing over "badness" and Sam wins GO SAM! You be the BEST evil thing you can be. And don't worry, Dean will have to save you and show you how much of a better brother he can be! ;D
22nd-Jul-2014 04:02 pm (UTC)
When I heard that we would wonder which was the true monster, my thoughts went to Sam drinking demon blood. He took out Lillith, why couldn't he take out Crowley? Or control Dean? But then, he doesn't have Dean!Dean to pull him back and throw him in detox.(The again, Sam controlling Demon!Dean sounds very appealing.) :D
23rd-Jul-2014 11:51 am (UTC)
It makes me wonder if he would go back to drink demon blood. It would seem like a complete re-doing of that past story line. Which, yeah, Carver is doing that - but I'd be surprised his they revisited the demon blood drinking. On the one hand though, it cold be extremely interesting if he did that. I do like powerful Sam, so that could be a positive thing I suppose. :)
22nd-Jul-2014 05:20 pm (UTC)
I can see Sam doing something questionable if, say, every other hunter was on Dean's trail cuz DEMON and Sam was like "whelp time to summon that unholy army I was always destined to lead" #boykingSam
22nd-Jul-2014 05:23 pm (UTC)
*gives you a kiss and a cookie*
22nd-Jul-2014 05:23 pm (UTC)
Okay, let's see if I can add something new to all the spewing I already did at all_spn...

First and foremost, balancing the 'evil deeds' between the brothers is gonna be quite the task for this bunch of writers. The success of this concept or theme for the first few episodes MUST be handled in a thoughtful, clever way or two things will happen:

-Demon!Dean will fall flat. We've all been squirming excitedly to see what Jensen does with this meaty opportunity, but if it just ends up feeling like Dean-exaggerated, big effin' hairy deal. I hope they don't water him down, s'all I can say.

-Sam's character will be further assassinated. Carver has done a pretty tidy job of making us hate Sam since the start of Season Eight, and that has been mostly due to uneven writing and an almost COMPLETE lack of Sam POV. This, coming from a Sam!girl who has had to headcanon her way into understanding him. It's really absurd how poorly any of the writers seem to have a handle on one of their TWO MAIN CHARACTERS. Christ, you guys, you have TWO MAIN CHARACTERS TO KNOW. That's it! Can't you get on the same page with the guy? (I feel, to a lesser degree, Castiel has suffered the same fate, and with Misha becoming a signed regular now, that's another critter over which they'd better rub braincells.)

Carver has written good episodes in the past. Berens and Thompson too. But the rest? Urrrgh. If they're not hitting us with anvils, they're sloppy with canon or so biased in their writing, it's painful to watch. Maybe this is because they're catering to the 'new fan', you know the one...the one that speaks in hyperbole and loves to scream at each other and fight about who's the better brother or what's the better ship. I just don't know, but I wish they'd stop. I know there was wank in Seasons 1-5, but never to the degree that there is now.

I'm probably clutching at straws, but I have some snippet of hope that Carver can wrangle cats. And speaking of Carver...

"This might sound mysterious," says Carver, "but to me, Season 9 was about choosing the kind of person you wanted to be, like Cas deciding whether to stay human or become an angel again. I think Season 10 will be about everyone looking up and saying, 'You know what, I am what I am.' We'll see that play out in each and every character."

MIGHT sound mysterious? Oh, honey. I suspect what he meant was that OUR ACTIONS choose the kind of person we want to be. And now, in Season Ten, the characters are becoming existential enough to say "Okay, I chose this path, this is my life, now what do I do with it?" This could be a very good thing for our boys. Maybe Dean will stop erroneously blaming himself for every ill in the world ("OMG, gas prices when up again; IT'S ALL MY FAULT. I'M A WORTHLESS PIECE OF SHIT.") And maybe Sam will realize that in speaking indecisive half-truths, you only make matters worse. ("Sorry, changed my mind; we can still be brothers, Dean. Cool? Cool. Now quit bleeding all over me, man, this is my favorite plaid.")

I hope they make something interesting of S10. I really do love the Nietzscheist idea that “He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . . when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you.” It's so applicable to the Winchesters, it screams. I don't know how the hell Sam and Dean can not be scarred, both physically or emotionally, by the lives they lead. I want to see more of this.

22nd-Jul-2014 05:23 pm (UTC)
I want to see them dealing with each others' figurative demons in a way that is fair to both characters. I want the writers to give us moving exchanges without anvils. We can handle it, I PROMISE. But this doesn't mean it's acceptable to leave dialogue deliberately open-ended and obtuse, in order to cause miscommunication; that is nothing but a cheap parlor trick used by inept writers, IMHO.

I want to see the wear and tear this life has had on the boys, yet for them to realize they will always be in each other's back pocket, no matter what. In fact, they only have themselves. Ever. No one else--not Castiel, not the Chick of the Week--has their history, their legacy, their fate, their connection. This could lead up to an awesome, heart-breaking Butch-and-Sundance-esque finale. (But since dead is never truly dead, I can still hold out for a big-screen movie possibility, no matter how the series ends! I have no doubt fandom could single-handedly fund the movie if all the important parties decided to make it. :D)

So in conclusion, it is not October yet, and I am gleeful anxiety incarnate.
22nd-Jul-2014 08:25 pm (UTC)
ive read Jared's interview and seen Jensen's video
22nd-Jul-2014 09:46 pm (UTC)
I only want two things. I want Dean to be truly Demon Dean, and I want Sam to save him--I want Sam to roll up his sleeves and say, "I've had enough of this shit." and get to getting. I want us to see every bit of how heroic he is. And I want Dean to say "thank you, Sam, I really needed your help." when it's all over. So maybe I want three things.

HA! I won't hold my breath. I don't think Carver likes either of his main characters.
23rd-Jul-2014 12:36 am (UTC)
Yanno, I don't think you won't necessarily get what you want! But I think it's going to be kind of like wishing on the Monkey's Paw:

-Dean might be truly demonic, and dastardly and above all, unlikeable. An asshole through and through.

-Sam will almost certainly save him, but in doing so, our hero will do some very unheroic things to accomplish this task.

-Dean might say thank you, but first, he'll say "What the ever lovin' fuck, Sam?? You did what to whom, when?? You shoulda let me go..."

At which point Sam will look gobsmacked at Dean and yell back, "But you gave me so much shit about not looking for you in Purgatory, what the hell?? And you wouldn't let me go, so..."

And then they'll hug and laugh and drink beer.

22nd-Jul-2014 09:48 pm (UTC)
As I first read Jared's interview at Zap2it, I was raising my fist to a big 'Yezzzz!!!'
Finally, finally, they get it, I thought, because hey, Jared should know, after all; shouldn't he?

Then I read Carver's interview at TVLine, shook my head in disbelief (again!), left out a deep sigh and got confused.
*rolls eyes at Mr C.*
- Because what he was telling, was more or less the very opposite to Jared's words, IMO.

Hard to believe that they did a panel together the same day.
- But meanwhile I've learned to take the current Mr Showrunner not too serious anymore so let's wait and see...
SMILEY  - ANIM - Kopf-kratz photo SMILEY-ANIM-Kopf-kratz_zpsab787373.gif

Finally TFW: What's wrong about letting Sam & Cas look and care for DD [Demon!Dean] together? I'm so tired of Angelbaby being kept separated from his Winchesters, to or fro the fading grace...
- Especially when he's not supposed to ask and look for Dean, that would be sooo OOC!!

But anyway, thank very much o dear Mme Vidding Queen, for posting this hottielicious spoilers plus your own two cents. I see we share some doubts here and that, after all, isn't a bad thing, hm?

DEAN & SAM s07e18 - ANIMATED - Lady first (boys leaving motelroom) photo DEANampSAMs07e18-ANIMATED-Ladyfirstboysleavingmotelroom_zps2d38d137.gif

Have a good week, my lovely [and forgive me but I couldn't resist]. SMILEY - ANIM - Zwinker-Smiley, hehe! photo SMILEY-ANIM-Zwinker-Smileyhehe_zps2fd0d053.gif
*giggles + hugs you*
23rd-Jul-2014 12:29 pm (UTC)
Thank you honey!! (Loving the gif!!)

I think they are keeping Cas separate in order to give the Js a break. As dads now, we'll see less and less of them I think. They'll still carry much of the story but it looks like Cas will be carrying his own storyline for a bit. And maybe even Crowley (and some new characters).

I hope they give Cas a good reason for NOT helping out with Dean - because it would be OOC to have him just not look (though I also suspect there are some...er...political reasons for keeping them apart. The "destiel must be canon" push and the accusations of them queerbaiting might mean they are making sure they don't murkier the reading on the relationship anymore. Or something! I don't know though. Who knows what we'll end up seeing!!!

I want to know NOW though!
22nd-Jul-2014 11:13 pm (UTC)
I'm not reading the spoilers or the comments here. Just popping in to say that I read one interview (with Jared), liked it, and decided I'd better quit while I'm ahead. I'm the type of person who fares best by trying not to guess what they're planning and trying not to have expectations.

(So I guess I just stooped by to say Hi! And I'm looking forward to season 10!)

23rd-Jul-2014 12:37 pm (UTC)
Stick to the one interview! :D Jared is wonderfully positive and he says stuff that is great to hear.

I am (tentatively) looking forward to S10. :)))

23rd-Jul-2014 12:47 am (UTC)
I actually completely agree with everything you said up there and very eloquently put too :) Thanks for sharing your thoughts hun.
23rd-Jul-2014 03:18 am (UTC)
I loved Jared's interview SO much - I was literally beaming afterwards. I tried to stop myself from reading Carver's but eventually caved - I swear, he says things that just don't make sense. It's like he's watching/writing a different show than I'm watching sometimes - that would not be my description of Season 9 and he seemed to think S9 was only about Cas anyway, so...

But I'm liking what Jared and Jensen have to say about S10, and I'm gonna hope that Carver doesn't muck it up too badly. I'll have a hard time finding anything Sam does in order to save Dean monstrous, because that's how my Sam/Dean romantic trope works anyway. Desperate times, and all that. I'm just so relieved that Sam is going all out to save his brother like he should have in S8 - it heals some of that lingering hurt.

Damn, October is a long way off...
23rd-Jul-2014 01:15 pm (UTC)
I was SO excited to see Jared's interview (and I loved Jensen's one on directing). Carver just confuses me so much. The things that I thought were awesome about S9 don't rate a mention and instead he talks about something that is pretty much the complete opposite of what we got. So, I want to take what he says about S10 with a grain of salt. Though not knowing who is the "true" monster is pretty worrying. The fact that they will both be monsters is bad enough, but that one (probably Sam) will somehow be worse than the other is stressing.

I have learned to accept that the "I'll do ANYTHING for you" attitude from both of them is what makes them such compelling characters, but I would love them to at least acknowledge that sometimes when they do that each other gets hurt and so do others. I don't mind if they continue to do that (yay intense bro!love), but I hope they stop pitting each other against the other. With one being more monstrous, we've already got some sort of "competition" between them.

But yes!! Seeing Sam actually try and save Dean will be a relief after S8. Maybe Carver realised the mess he made of that.

October is SO long away! It's gonna kill me!
23rd-Jul-2014 09:20 am (UTC)
I'm still trying to stay away from specific spoilers, skimming here though.

I really don't know what to think, I'd like to say this sounds amazingly promising, and it does, but there again everyone has been so enthusiastic at this time in the past 2 seasons and I've ended up every single time enjoying fandom plots and scenarios far more than Carver and his Band of Merry Twitters every single time.

The problem for me specifically is that once again there's a huge chance we're back to the cycle of single ideas stretched over two main characters. "You think Sam was bad drinking blood? Just wait for Demon Dean. You think Dean did despicable things saving Sam? Just wait 'till you see what Sam's going to do" All it does for me is stir up the fandom wank, which I suppose the writers relish seeing as they instigate so much of it. In the mean time I'm losing my love for this show over all this petty one-upmanship.

I've sat through two seasons now of watching my beloved characters forge further and further away from people I care about and empathise with. I know there's been some terrible Sam hate around, but honestly have to say Carver has totally and utterly destroyed the character of Dean for me. I'm probably the only one, but I'm floundering with seeing how much further they can take Dean as a demon than what they've had him do already, at least this time there will be a reason for it, but the only thing I've read so far is that he hooks up with some girl? REALLY?? Excuse me while I reach for my cup of tea...

The main problem is still the writing stable, I don't think they grasp the huge undercurrents of problems their story lines have led us to, hoping they'll be resolved is to me kind of moot as I don't think they know they're there! They're very surface, and "well it worked well last time" kind of writers and I'm always hoping for some great leap forward, but it seems this season will be another cycle of heaven wars and brother saving/not saving/bitching/fighting/abuse and I'm still hoping for more.

There is promise, I'd love them to surprise me, I hope to come back at the end of the season and eat my words. Humble Pie anyone?
23rd-Jul-2014 01:23 pm (UTC)
Hi hun!

Looks like you've got the "biggest" spoiler. Everything else is pretty tame compared to the "true monster" bit (for me anyway).

And I have to say, I don't think either character is going to come out of this any the "better". I feel like those boys we feel so deeply for all those years ago and well and truly gone. With angels being pretty much dicks and demons being evil it looks like both of them end up falling into either of those categories. Seems like "above all of that" doesn't even feature any more. I know that them being touched by all the evil they hunt must affect them, but I want to see them rise above it and be stronger because they have each other. That there's something in the other that makes them better than every other monster. Maybe that will be the end point - but I think we are in for a torrid time next season. I had hoped for SO much in S9 and was so hurt by the end of it. I would like to think I'm going into S10 a little less obsessed or invested - but I just can't see that happening. I just want it to all get BETTER!

I like the idea of demon!dean because it could be a path to getting him back on track and give Sam a chance to show him how much he does love him. But I can't imagine that will happen. Carver likes the drama too much.

Maybe I shouldn't be wishing October will come more quickly. I think it's going to be a killer! (though I will always love seeing the boys...)

12th-Aug-2014 07:33 pm (UTC)
Eeep! My comment is so late!

About Sam doing something "monstrous"... sometimes, there isn't an honorable, perfect solution that doesn't cross any lines. And what if there was no other solution? Lets say that Sam couldn't find Dean, and Dean goes on to do many horrible things? That's not a better scenario.
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