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So ya know... 
5th-Feb-2015 07:10 pm
Now & Then
I'm not going to be writing up a reaction or review of 10.12. In fact, it's unlikely I'll be writing them any more. I feel I only want to complain these days and that's not fair on anyone (though I'm thinking of writing up some general stuff - mostly to help me try and work why I'm feeling just over it all).

I am still curious about what every one thought so I'll still do the polls (if you're all still happy to fill them out *g*).

Poll #1998102 10.12 episode reaction

I thought 10.12 was

Awesome! Loved it!
Pretty good! Enjoyed most of it.
Ok. It had its ups and downs.
Meh. Something was lacking.
Ugh. Nope.
5th-Feb-2015 11:26 am (UTC)
5th-Feb-2015 11:41 am (UTC)
5th-Feb-2015 11:56 am (UTC)
*hugs* <3. my grade is an F for everything. this series is going down the toilet. at 1st, my grade was a D, then i thought on it and remembered the last scene was stupid and then changed it :(. this show with my name initials is going down the toilet. *hugs you again* <3. i did enjoy the ep, til the pretty lamp.. i mean Sam got knocked out again, and the ending scene killed my enjoyment all together

Edited at 2015-02-05 12:07 pm (UTC)
5th-Feb-2015 12:09 pm (UTC)
Strangely, I really enjoyed the episode. I even re-watched it (so I could admire Dylan's performance all over again). I just figure that after an episode that showcases they brothers' relationship and I STILL feel empty, then it probably means it's fading for me. My discontent is complex I think (in terms of why I'm so annoyed at the show), so I'm thinking it might be time for a little break from trying to find deep layers that just don't exist anymore).

5th-Feb-2015 12:49 pm (UTC)
Tbh, if it weren't for the serial I'm writing, I wouldn't be watching the show any more but, so long as my readers are, I feel I have to be in touch with what's going on there. But it's been several seasons now since I've regarded show as canon. In order to remain philosophical about it, I find it helps to regard it as professional fanfiction - of variable standard, some goodish some bad some indifferent. Glass is actually one of the better writers, I think, but that's only measured by the standard of what we've got left. The trouble is, they lost my willing suspension of disbelief a long time ago, and once that's gone I think it's next to impossible to get it back. After that, all you can see is holes.
5th-Feb-2015 01:03 pm (UTC)
Yeah. That's me now. It upsets be greatly (real tears last night.../o\) because I LOVED my disbelief being suspended. I loved believing they had a plan. I loved thinking this universe was solid and meant something. I saw through it all in that episode and it kind of killed me. But. At the same time, I think it might be a good thing. By not doing the reactions anymore I might stop watching it trying to find layers and connecting threads.

For me the fact that they don't seem to have anyone who can write Sam left on staff is just so depressing. We've had 12 episodes and not one examining Sam - even when there's been opportunities to do so.
5th-Feb-2015 01:06 pm (UTC)
wow, i LOVED the ep, the acting was nop notch, i laughed out loud a lot.

I was happy that Sam got a BAMF moment in the bar and a speech at the end.

Jared was BRILLIANT working off teen Dean, you would swear that he was really talking to Dean.Mini Dean was so good,fantastic chemistry with Sam.

My only minor niggle was that Hansel and Gretel didn't really do it for me but everything else was awesome, including the end.
5th-Feb-2015 01:22 pm (UTC)
yay! So happy you loved it hun!

I adored Dylan's performance. He got Dean perfectly. And he and Jared really worked well together.

(My niggles are long term, deeply entrenched ones now. Nothing to do specifically with that episode. In fact, it's one of the few this season I've re-watched almost immediately just so I could watch the boys together…*g*).
5th-Feb-2015 01:20 pm (UTC)
I really enjoyed Dylan's performance of Dean, I think this is what saved the episode for me.

However, I just feel annoyed that Dean had to save the day and Sam had to say thank you for it. It's not enough that during Dean's storyline of MOC we are getting episode after episode of Sam being supportive and showing Dean's feelings and emotions (I mean where was that when Sam was on demon blood? but hey that's in the past.) Would it kill the writers to show Sam's POV once? I know what he says about the MOC but I want to see how he feels about it.

And was I the only one holding out hope to see a little!Sam? I mean if Sam had to be saved seeing an itty bitty Sam would be logical right?

I stopped writing reviews a long time ago too. They felt too much like a chore rather than fun to me.
5th-Feb-2015 01:34 pm (UTC)
Would it kill the writers to show Sam's POV once?

I actually think it would. They've avoided it for nearly 3 years now so yep, I reckon they must feel they'd DIE if they actually gave us a moment of Sam ;D).

Dean's storyline of MOC we are getting episode after episode of Sam being supportive and showing Dean's feelings and emotions

I love supportive Sam but that's ALL he's done so far. I think he's told Dean "you can beat this" in the last 3 episodes. I feel like shouting…we know!

And was I the only one holding out hope to see a little!Sam?

OMG! How awesome that would have been?! Surprise wee!Sam. Young Dean and Sam together would have been all sorts of fun? But I was spoiled for that NOT happening so I didn't expect it. I did think Sam would have more to do, but I seriously have to resign myself to the fact that until Sam does something "bad" to (try) and save Dean, he's just gonna do nothing (speculation, but I think that's where it's heading. Full circle).

They felt too much like a chore rather than fun to me.

I love doing them. I love chatting about the show but I feel like all I'm doing these days is complain. So many people loved this episode (and I can understand why!) and I feel like I'm out of step. I just can't seem to get excited about what everyone else is getting excited about.
5th-Feb-2015 01:43 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed it and the things that bugged me I was able to let go because overall I liked it so much.

But I feel ya. I went through those feelings with Smallville in Season 9 and had to let it go for awhile. I watched the first few episodes and stopped. But then, I came back S10 and loved every minute. Maybe a break is what you need? :)
5th-Feb-2015 02:02 pm (UTC)
The small things that bugged me I could easily over look (like it was so weird that one minute Sam was bashing a guy's head on a bar being so anxious about Dean and the next he was looking so very relaxed searching through websites…*handwaves*). It's the overall bigger picture that they refuse to address - essentially because it no longer exists) that worn me down.

I'll still watch. Always! But I'm going to take a break from the complaining (and hopefully disappointment).

5th-Feb-2015 01:44 pm (UTC)
I've been thinking about damsel-in-distress!Sam and the way he's effectively erased from the critical fight scenes for the last, oh, year and a half, and I wonder if part of it isn't gender-related. Sam is often portrayed as the feminine one (Samantha, being into books and studying, preferring emotional connections to picking up a chick in a bar, etc.), and one of the pleasures of this show has always been the two brothers being equal in smarts and strength and agency. When that equality is eroded, making Sam the helpless "woman" who has to be rescued by Dean (or by Gadreel, last season), might we resent it more because as women, we were enjoying watching a relationship between equals?

IDK, just a thought. I also wanted to say that it's totally understandable for you to take a step back. I wasn't as upset as other people with the ep because I'm no longer surprised at how the writers treat Sam. Sad, yes, but I guess I've come to expect it and so will concentrate on the good parts, like how frickin' awesome Dylan Everett was on his own and with Jared.
5th-Feb-2015 02:15 pm (UTC)
Hi. It's an interesting point. I really can't work it out. It's like they fear that if Sam is instrumental in those fight scenes (or has moments any other character) it will some how detract from Dean. I think Sam's "need" to be rescued is tied into Dean's heroism. There are times I love it, but man - it's becoming so repetitive.

might we resent it more because as women, we were enjoying watching a relationship between equals?

I certainly know I enjoy watching them as equals. :) Not sure if that's because I'm a women or just because the one sided story telling is getting a bit tedious to me.

I wasn't as upset as other people with the ep

Oh, other people were upset with it? I felt like I was the only one (and actually, I enjoyed it. Like last week's episode. They're fine, but I'm just not feeling them like I used to). I've mostly seen squee (which is great!) so I've been really feeling out of step…)
5th-Feb-2015 02:31 pm (UTC)
Funnily enough, I know how you feel. I enjoyed this episode enormously but when it was over, there wasn't really much I wanted to say. I'm supposed to be writing an episode reaction fic, and I can't think of a hook. I'm actually relying on other people's reaction posts to help ME react.

So damn, I'm going to miss your reaction posts! (And I don't think you were moaning at all btw).
5th-Feb-2015 02:47 pm (UTC)
Thanks hun. These days I feel like I just can't add…SQUEEEEEE! like I used to. It wouldn't take me much for it all to be alright again but as that's actually never going to happen I think it's best to stop writing stuff just to moan…;)

The ep had such a lot going for it. The performances we great and the idea was fun. I keep telling myself if an ep like this doesn't get me excited then there's gotta be something wrong…(with me).

Good luck with the hook! (if you loved it go with that! For me it just needed Dean somehow understanding Sam just that little bit more. I seriously don't think it's even a consideration in the 'verse at the moment. But that moment when Dean "gets" Sam will be the day the show changes for me. Instead, I know we are heading for Sam "getting" Dean (which is such a used theme now I'm kinda just over it all…D:)
5th-Feb-2015 02:55 pm (UTC)
I understand your frustration on wanting to continue your reaction posts. It's gotten to a point where we look deeper for something and it's never there so we aren't really satisfied, like a thirst that can't be quenched. I feel like I'm dying sometimes wanting that sip that will keep me going!

Don't get me started on Sam continuing to be sidelined, makes me see red.

I wasn't happy with the song choice at the end. It may have been a joke but after that great scene the boys had at the bus station, I wanted something classic rock angsty for their drive away. Adam Glass mentioned on twitter his son was part of this episode thought process, maybe it was the son's idea for the song reference and using it IDK. We can't get Zepp on the show but we can get Taylor Swift? Um, wtf?! That couldn't have been cheap.

Episodes are less scary than ever, maybe it's to keep the younger viewers tuning in and not be sent to bed early by their parents. They aren't the demographic so I'm reaching now for something to explain it. I'm drawing a blank tbh.

I always read your posts and the comments from other fans for other points of view even if I don't comment. I love your thinky thoughts on things that are relevant that I may not have thought about. If taking a break is what you need, I say do it for your own sanity <3
5th-Feb-2015 08:09 pm (UTC)
Todd Aronauer said on twitter that the Taylor Swift song choice was all Bob Singer, who thought it was funny. It was just a lame Singer joke, as usual.
5th-Feb-2015 04:39 pm (UTC)
Aww, bb, no . . . It's OKAY to not like an episode or be dissatisfied with the way things are going. I love your reviews, positive or negative. *massive hugs*
6th-Feb-2015 02:01 am (UTC)
Thanks sweetie. I think I'm just tired of coming off an episode with no emotion. I loved having something to actually say. Now I just come across as a bitter!Sam girl (which, ha! I am…). I'll still watch for interesting stuff and the day an ep grabs me and I want to SQUEE about it I will!! *g*

5th-Feb-2015 04:42 pm (UTC)
I so understand you.. :*
I watched this episode while wondering when it would be starting. They have managed to make it so hollow that I'm sitting in front of the episode feeling... nothing.
To me it all just felt so constructed. Like a dead body on strings for movement. How the hell did they do that? I mean I noticed what bothered me like the fairy tale thing, the stage play kind of conversations (I don't know how else to describe it),mostly incompetent hunter boys, meaningless moments filled with artificial meaning, emotionless emotions. But to actually rob a show of its soul is an accomplishment.. :/
I'm glad though to see that others are still enjoying Show the way it is now. For me, it's not what I fell in love with.. not sure what this is now. Watching a decaying body perhaps?
Ye, great mood I'm in, eh? I'm just emotionally speechless I think. Or maybe I got killed by one too many anvils and am, in fact, dead.

I second your "blank" icon in your post and raise you a "sad Sam".

((big comfort hugs))
5th-Feb-2015 05:00 pm (UTC)
After reading some positive opinions here on the thread I feel nearly bad about my own reaction. But the feeling of looking at a pretty box with nothing in it was overwhelming to me.
Btw, with "stage play conversations" I didn't mean the actors (I thought they all did great) but the way it was put together... I'm not good at explaining that. lol. So yeah, misunderstandings and hate replies ahoi. lol

Oh, and I very much agree with "winsangel" on having wanted something classic rock angsty for their drive away in the end. It really irked me.

5th-Feb-2015 06:47 pm (UTC)

haven't watched this episode, b I think the thing with Sam is that his story, his journey, has come to an, well, end. he is the one who is at peace, so to speak, with the world and himself, mostly. you still can throw life at him, but he knows who he is and he knows his limits, and he is ok with it. on the other hand, Dean is not there yet. so, in a way, it's understandable that the story revolves around Dean. frustrating, but understandable.

6th-Feb-2015 12:16 am (UTC)
Oh nice point. And I would be so so happy with that if we got to see Sam's journey to that place. I am left with this overwhelming need to know why Sam is so ok (and know we all can come up with great ideas about thst, I just wish the show would). I know dean is still dealing with this and I like that it's been so thoroughly explored - very, very thoroughly (which, yeah possibly some of my bitterness is tied up in that too).

Thanks for that. It makes sense. :)
5th-Feb-2015 08:06 pm (UTC)
Here's the thing to remember about Carver - he doesn't give a shit about Sam, and he's never going to give a shit about Sam. He came in and from the first episode of his era, he rebooted Sam back to the simplest version of himself - "Normal Life Sam". It didn't matter what had happened between the pilot and 8.1, because Carver was going to make that fit regardless.

Sam has always been used as a plot device on this show, but Kripke and Gamble understood that there was a human being underneath as well, and cared enough about him to try and tease out emotion and characterization through that. Carver doesn't give a fuck about that, because I firmly believe that he is not interested in Sam as a character and thinks he's boring and, because of those reasons, doesn't want to work hard enough to figure him out and put him onscreen.

Do I think he likes Dean? Nah. But Dean's an easier character to write. Everyone and their mother knows how Dean is feeling at any given moment. Dean is iconic, he's popular, he cries so pretty, he has his hot car and his well-known catchphrases, and he comes in the package that is Jensen Ackles. He's easy to throw things at, and they know people are going to connect to him because of all the reasons in this paragraph, no matter what the character says or does.

Carver likes the supernatural creatures. Cas and Crowley and Benny and Garth the new werewolf -- this is all playing to his nouveau-Being Human schtick that he came in trying to turn the show into, even if it's really like shoving a square peg in a round hole. Kripke said the show was about normal humans in an extraordinary world - Carver likes extraordinary creatures in a normal human world. But those are the types of characters that he enjoys, and if he could get away with not focusing on the brothers because of J2 contract reasons, you can bet your ass he'd do it in a heartbeat.

What am I trying to say? I don't remember, because I have the flu and I'm hopped up on Dayquil lulz. But the moral of the story, I guess, is that once I figured out all the above, I realized that if I was going to continue to watch, I had to accept that was the shit I was going to get, and try to enjoy the other stuff that WAS better than the last two years of terribleness.

As for this episode, Dylan Everett was great and it pleases me greatly that most of him nailing the mannerisms came from working with Jared, and Jared knowing Jensen's body so well (RAWR, BABY, RAWR)
6th-Feb-2015 04:07 am (UTC)
God, this is so well summed up and SO. INFURIATING.

Thank you, though, for putting it into words. I'm going to go plunge headfirst into my AU where I try to make all these problems right (i.e., with not treating Sam as an actual person).
5th-Feb-2015 09:25 pm (UTC)
Sorry to hear that - your posts are always a highlight for me. But I completely understand how you feel. I think for me, the biggest frustration is how they start off each season with potentially great ideas that just seem to fizzle out within a few episodes and end up going nowhere. The whole 'Dean is a demon' thing is only the latest example of that. Oh, and then there's the character regression...I could go on...basically what everyone here has already said.
6th-Feb-2015 01:39 pm (UTC)
Hi. I'll missing posting reaction because I love chatting about the show. If an episode really grabs me and I have positive things to say I'll probably do one for that ep. :)

It's so weird to me that the seasons start off pretty strong (well, expect for S8) and the idea gets ditched and isn't resolved. Even S8 had some potentially interesting ideas to explore (like why exactly Sam didn't look for Dean, and what effect spending a year in Purgatory meant to Dean…), but they seem to chicken out of any real exploration of that. Losing demon!dean after only 3 eps was disappointing (though it looks like mark!Dean might take his place…(?).
5th-Feb-2015 11:54 pm (UTC)
I want the Sam who took out two S.W.A.T. guys BY. HIMSELF. back.

I know he's been knocked around a bit and his head has been royally fucked up but COME ON! He even took the bartender and bashed his head into the bar, where was that Sam fighting Hansel?
6th-Feb-2015 01:51 pm (UTC)
I want the Sam who took out two S.W.A.T. guys BY. HIMSELF. back.

OMG! Yes please!

where was that Sam fighting Hansel?

Check out borgmama1of5's comment below. It's an interesting take on what Sam may have been doing during that scene.
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