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curled around these images
just enough to make us dangerous
10.19 reaction... 
23rd-Apr-2015 09:39 pm
squeed, posted, I watched
It's been a bloody long time but….


Oh you stupid, fucked up, compelling damn show. I hate you and love you at the same time! Currently I love you because, damn it's great when you pick a direction and stick to it for a while.

The thing is, I really don't need much. Some Sam pov, some thought-provoking Dean pov and an examination of this crazy, messed up relationship and I am, once again, a happy fan girl. Seriously, just being allowed to get inside Sam's head takes me to a better place with the show. I almost feel I could take out much of what happened in S8 and S9 and accept this Sam and as the one who reacted to Dean disappearing at the end of S7 and I could be fully on track again (yeah yeah, I know there's a bigger discussion here but for now I just want to take what I can get…).

I loved this episode. It was intense and thought provoking. I ADORED that we re-visited purgatory - it was the perfect place to go for the MoC!Dean. It showed the constant, inner desire to kill with his ability to control it. The very fight that's going on inside him. I love that we SAW this, not just had to work it out from him staring into a mirror. Jensen and Ty have such great chemistry - I could watch those two on screen for ages. Those scenes were some of my favourite.

And wow, Sam. It's so hard for me to talk about Sam with bringing into what he's been through in the last 2 season but I feel like I need to. Sam's been "re-set" (and I know there's probably a tome of meta in all that, but no time at the moment) so we now get to see him being absolutely desperate to save Dean. And I mean, ready to kill himself to do so. Damn, that's dark and messed up (and I love it!). How interesting that Sam is still ready to die. Dean wasn't, but Sam was. That's so intriguing to me. Dean could cut through the hallucination, but Sam couldn't (and I was fooled too! I love being surprised…). I wonder if they'll explore this more later on. Sam still believes his death will make things better. *sniff* Oh Sammy...

Much like the last two episodes, we are still exploring the intensity of Sam and Dean's relationship. And as I said in my latest reaction, I much rather seeing it in this way - stupid, blind love and devotion - rather than in the way we've been seeing it over the last couple of years - with hopelessness, deceit and bitterness.

I know what we're seeing is like a broken down record. It's the same part of the tune being played over and over again - sacrifice with dire consequences over and over and over. But it's crazy compelling - especially when we're getting even pov.

I loved how much this episode focussed on the brothers - in all their messed up glory. It was particularly curious to hear Dean apologise for ditching Sam and saying "we're better together", when he's really not the one needing to understand that. Dean has always thought they were better together. It was almost like he was confirming that for himself, and reminding Sam - we can fight this together. I'm hoping that's an acceptance that he's willing to take on the fight with Sam. Though, of course, Sam is taking things into his own hands and probably making a bad move. But he is a Winchester and if there's one thing he's learned from his big brother, it's do what it takes to save the other- even when he says he doesn't want it.

I'll talk later about being able to enjoy something in a TV show that I wouldn't accept in real life, but for now I'll just live in my fantasy world and enjoy the intensity that this brotherhood delivers.

Poll #2008992 10.19 reaction

I thought 10.19 was..

Fucking awesome!
Pretty good! Only a couple of bits that bothered me.
Ok. Mix of great and not so great.
Meh. Didn't grab me that much.
Ugh. This again?!
23rd-Apr-2015 02:11 pm (UTC)
Yes to all this! When I saw there's over 10 minutes of Sam on screen I had to pause and think, oh god is this the same show that has frustrated me so much for dismissing Sam Winchester??? And I was OVERJOYED. I even didn't care if the story was bad or not (apparently it was amazing) this amount of Sam carrying out his plan and doing things is enough to make me happy! And I was surprised to know that Dean was able to snap out of the control but Sam wasn't, because it's always seemed to me that Dean was more susceptible to the temptation of suicide. I think this episode proved that Dean's stronger than he thinks he is (yes I think it's not just the mark), and Sam's so desperate.

And smart Sam is sexy!!!

Edited at 2015-04-23 02:20 pm (UTC)
23rd-Apr-2015 02:27 pm (UTC)
Yes yes! I loved the solid exploration of Dean - I feel like that's been missing for a while also. Dean is so much stronger than he thinks he is - he's survived so much, so of course he is. I love seeing capable, smart, desperate Winchesters.

And Sam is so very damaged and I think his hallucination really showed that.

I love how smart the writing was. It explored the characters in such a clever way - it didn't preach or drop anvils. Berens is my fave. I hope they don't lose him.
23rd-Apr-2015 02:11 pm (UTC)
I think the Rowena hallucination was my favorite part of this episode, because I love that everything she "told" Sam was something he already knew (the spell, the Latin). I didn't see it coming, either (probably because my expectations of subtlety on SPN are low these days, ha).

Second favorite part was Dean in Purgatory. That was so well done, and added to my thinky thoughts about the codependent brothers. Also, "what goes on in Purgatory stays in Purgatory"! Um, that sure read like canonical Dean/Benny to me...

I also loved what hallucinatory!Suzie (why are their names always Suzie?) said to Sam. Oh, Sammy, what are you doing? I'm still pretty horrified that she kept guard over that thing her whole life (can you imagine, living in that house?) and then Sam came along and screwed up the spell because he's so desperate he's being reckless, and bam, dead.

Dean following Sam by getting the rubbing off his notepad was creepy. So was Sam's recovery when Dean showed up in the car, and Sam told him the truth about the case—just not the important parts. Way to make Dean complicit in you getting that woman killed, Sam. Most of the time I think both Dean and Sam are terrible at lying to each other, and then one of them pulls something like that.
23rd-Apr-2015 11:25 pm (UTC)
(why are their names always Suzie?) Because otherwise their names are Amelia. I've said other places that someone needs to buy the writers a book of baby names.

TBH, one of my favorite writers had one of his characters named Robert in most of his books. Some people just get stuck on a name.
23rd-Apr-2015 02:45 pm (UTC)
I always figure it's like this -- I'll take passion over indifference any day. Even when it's fucked up. Especially when it's fucked up.
24th-Apr-2015 05:02 am (UTC)
Exactly! Just frustrating when they seem to be headed in a certain direction and then it fizzles. Don't fizzle!!!
23rd-Apr-2015 03:53 pm (UTC)
Squee indeed! :) My woozy messed up Sammy (pets him) and Dean facing his fears with Benny was awesome- like a throw back to Bobby in his head with Rufus (but a glorious throw back and use of a character). Loved!
23rd-Apr-2015 08:36 pm (UTC)
I adored seeing Benny again. He was played with just the right balance of congeniality and threat!
23rd-Apr-2015 04:19 pm (UTC)
Loved this episode so much it isn't even funny. Yes to everything already mentioned, plus the blood-letting, the creepy good mixing of Dean's blood with Sam's (okay, not erotic at all, no sir).
24th-Apr-2015 05:04 am (UTC)
Oh the blood letting was incredible - especially when Sam's mixed with Dean's….*thud*
23rd-Apr-2015 06:26 pm (UTC)
I'm glad you have so many words because the only words that keep popping into my head are: I loved, I loved it, I loved it!!! SQUEEEEEEEE \o/ :D
Guess I just leave the coherent discussion to others. lol, haha. *twirls you* :D
24th-Apr-2015 05:05 am (UTC)
Oh yay!!! It's great when it's great isn't it?! They are SO incredibly messed up, but I love it when the explore that. Such a great S&D heavy episode. <333
23rd-Apr-2015 06:32 pm (UTC)
it was pretty good. there were a part that was confusing (Sam not knocking down the door to get to Suzie),i will let that go other than that pretty good. my grade's an A-

Edited at 2015-04-23 06:33 pm (UTC)
24th-Apr-2015 05:06 am (UTC)
I think the door was being held by a supernatural power (given how easily he opened it once it was gone). But yeah, I expected him to at least try and kick it down.
23rd-Apr-2015 07:54 pm (UTC)
Peeking in, have not watched yet, but am so glad that you are so happy. Gives me something to look forward to after teaching today! ;)
24th-Apr-2015 05:07 am (UTC)
Always good to have something to look forward to after teaching!! :D
23rd-Apr-2015 08:21 pm (UTC)
10.19 = Utter perfection. Period, full-stop. ;) (I will have much more to say on this episode later, so drop by, lady.) ;)
23rd-Apr-2015 08:32 pm (UTC)
Utter perfection, indeed! Total agreement. :D
23rd-Apr-2015 08:28 pm (UTC)
D'oh! I just NOW digested the Rowena Hallucination. (Great name for an indie band, yeah?)

I LOVED THIS EPISODE. Bob Berens did it again. He truly understands this show and can write in its universe fantastically. LOVE LOVE LOVE.

I won't niggle the few little things that didn't fly for me (because frankly, I don't remember them in the throes of my glee.) Both boys (and Rowena and the daughter who lived, I can't recall her name) were written beautifully, and the acting was ON POINT. Hello, Sam bleeding out? *iz ded* (I mentioned this on twitter to Bob Berens because he did something similar to Sam in Alex Annie etc. He admitted it's a 'thing'. Same director, too. I could hug both of them! Play to your actors' strengths, right? Sam's powerful drive, Dean's charisma, Rowena's foxiness...)

I know what we're seeing is like a broken down record. It's the same part of the tune being played over and over again - sacrifice with dire consequences over and over and over. But it's crazy compelling - especially when we're getting even pov.

See, here's the thing: in TV shows and comics especially, your audience doesn't really want change, they want the perception of change. We really want our guys to stay true to themselves and let's be honest: that means making sacrifices, and if not for the 'dire consequences' part, we wouldn't have much of a show, would we? Never once has the show promised us everything will turn out hunky-dory. Quite the opposite. I'm already ready to bawl my eyes out when it finally ends, because TPTB will SLAY us.

Also, I've heard it said time and again: "Give them what they want in a way they won't expect." I really adhere to this. Frankly, I don't want the boys to be well-adjusted and never spatting. I want my angels to be assholes and my demons to be fucking terrifying. Just...in new and unusual ways. ;)

Which kinda brings me to your teaser about enjoying something on TV that wouldn't be acceptable IRL: YES, OF COURSE. Additionally, what one person finds enjoyable is not every person's fun. For instance, the whole idea of Sam finally finding a nice girl and settling down with 2.5 kids and a dog, while Dean and Cas ride off into the sunset together ... WELL. While it might tick off a bunch of boxes for some fans, I would stew in a puddle of ire over it. It feels so thematically broken for SPN, a different species of show altogether. Write the hell out of it in fanfic--everyone needs a little fluff now and again--but if the show wraps this way, just no. IRL, we all want peace, love and happiness, but this is the world of Supernatural. (This is just one relatively tame example; I know there are far more controversial ones. And I'm not adverse to anyone coming out as bi; that's not what this is about.) I look forward to this discussion!

Edited at 2015-04-23 08:31 pm (UTC)
24th-Apr-2015 02:30 am (UTC)
I didn't get the Rowena hallucination until it was explained to me either. My ego has been somewhat soothed today to see so many other people in the same boat.

You're absolutely right that this kind of show is based on circularity, and on the need to restore a very specific status quo. That status quo gets a little darker with each go round, but that's part of what makes it appealing to me.

And yeah, for me a happily ever after ending to this show would be incredibly unsatisfying. We've seen both of them try to live the apple pie life, and we've seen them fail. If the last shot is of a white picket fence, my brain will automatically fill in: "and then six weeks later demons showed up and ate them all."

A Butch and Sundance ending has a finality that would work better for me--not that the Winchesters will get much rest even in Heaven, if Bobby is any indication. One of the creepiest parts of the SPN universe is that "There'll be peace when you are done," is demonstrably false.
23rd-Apr-2015 10:05 pm (UTC)
Gosh, yes. Ditto to everything you said. I loved Sam in this episode (I won't even bitch about his hair, lol...apart from that he was magnificent). I'm so glad that Show has shown us more Awesome&Smart!Sam... seems like it's been ages since we've seen him.

I loved the focus on the brothers as well, and Dean's "we're better together" comment.
24th-Apr-2015 05:25 am (UTC)
Ugh. His hair. I was watching it at one point thinking - there is NO WAY Sam has got up from his bed, gone to get his hair dryer and flattening tongs and did his hair like that. It's nothing short of dreadful! What are they thinking with that!!?!

Aaanyway…all the other bits were fab. :)) I suppose I've rather have great character moments than great hair (both would be awesome though..;D)
23rd-Apr-2015 10:16 pm (UTC)
I thought Dean was resisting the suicide pull not just because the Mark wanted him alive, but because of who he is. Need to rewatch to see if that impression holds the second time through...Your observation that Sam is still (always) willing to die is unnerving.

I am dreading the finale...
23rd-Apr-2015 11:28 pm (UTC)
To be fair, Sam resisted the spell's first attempt to drive him to suicide as well. Then the spell switched it up from guilt to dying for Dean.
23rd-Apr-2015 11:31 pm (UTC)
Sam's been "re-set" (and I know there's probably a tome of meta in all that, but no time at the moment) so we now get to see him being absolutely desperate to save Dean.

I guess it's a reset, but it actually tracks with Sam's behavior in season 8. Sam stated last week that he couldn't hunt without Dean. Sam has persistently resisted bringing Dean back from the dead. The only exception was Mystery Spot where, it can be argued, Dean wasn't dead, Sam was just in an alternate universe that Gabriel invented. What I'm getting at is that if Sam had known Dean wasn't dead, he would have been absolutely desperate to save him, but believing Dean was dead, Sam knew he couldn't hunt so he left the life. Just MHO.
24th-Apr-2015 05:39 am (UTC)
Oh, I'm with you. I think the situation is very different to the one he faced in S8. Though I will probably always maintain that the Sam we've known for many years would have at least attempted to find out where Dean might have gone - not just run away from it all. But, it's canon, so I'd say he was honouring their so called "pact" to not bring each other back - and the devastation of the loss was just too much.

So Sam has gone from accepting Dean's death (without a body) in S8 to telling Dean that he wouldn't do something as "wrong" as Dean did to him in S9, to now exploring dark magic to save Dean. There's probably been a logical journey there - but I think I need to spend more time mulling that over to see how he got from the start to now. My initial thought is this has been about Sam realising he'll never have normal and when his brother is threatened he'll do anything to save him (just like Dean does…). I've never thought Sam needed to learn that - as we've seen it many times I think. But maybe with Sam "learning" this, we might see Dean learning some important things later too. *still hopes*

So it looks like Sam's needed to learn to be as screwed up as Dean. It's a tragic story- but highly compelling.
23rd-Apr-2015 11:40 pm (UTC)
Wow, this was so good, I don't even know where to start. Bob Berens...? I've been such a poor excuse for a fangirl for the past two seasons, I don't know what other episodes he's written, but I think I need to watch them now.

These are the brothers I love. I completely agree that reckless, doomed and damned soul-mate love beats existential angst any day of the week for me. They seemed somehow....younger....in this episode. More closely tied to their season 2 younger selves. I'm not sure why, but it reminded me of Dean's panic that something was WRONG with his little brother and Sam's conviction that something was more than wrong. That ominous foreboding hovering over the brotherly love....and yet, still two brothers in a car on the road.

That's my show. Ten years later. :)
24th-Apr-2015 05:43 am (UTC)
Bob is my favourite! He writes great episodes.

That ominous foreboding hovering over the brotherly love....and yet, still two brothers in a car on the road.

Yes yes, exactly. As long as they are messed up together I'm ok with the mess. I love it when its even - not the back and forth horridness we've been seeing for so long.

So wonderful to be able to squee again! :)
24th-Apr-2015 12:07 am (UTC)
What a great review, especially your squeeee, which was a joy to see again.

So much Sam in an episode = the highest opinion on your poll, and it felt great to vote that way... it's been awhile.

24th-Apr-2015 12:28 am (UTC)
Couldn't agree more!
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