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10.22 poll and, a different approach.. 
14th-May-2015 09:48 pm
Purgatory curious!face Dean
Poll #2011057 10.22 episode reaction

I thought 10.22 was:

Awesome! Intense and everything I expected from the penultimate episode.
Pretty good! The great stuff overshadowed the not so great stuff.
Ok. Not everything I hoped for, but still not entirely bad.
*meh* Aside from one or two moments, I was unimpressed.
Nope. Nope. Haven't we been here before?! Time to change the record. :(

This might not work, but I'm keen to try it. I have a heap of thoughts about this episode. So many I'm not really sure where to start. So, instead of writing it all down, how about you share what you thought and we can chat about it? OR ask me a specific question and I'll answer it. That way the conversation will become the episode reaction. If that makes any sense (if not, I'll write something up later…*g*).

I adore talking about the show and accept the individual responses to it. I won't harsh your squee, nor will I spew rainbows over your discontent. At the moment I'm all over the damn place about the episode. I could squee and I could bitch. I saw brilliance and I saw major fail. I'm just…what is this show?! How dare you make me care so much when I see through your contrivance.

In other words…I need to talk!
14th-May-2015 01:57 pm (UTC)
Well, I watched it fighting a nasty case of bronchitis and I have been keeping myself entertained by watching past seasons of Supernatural so I have a feeling that all colored my response going in.

I knew Dean was due to go off the deep end and that the boys would be at odds.

*I just don't get why Sam went in to kill Crowley just armed with what Rowena gave him. Why would he trust her hex bag? I missed Sam being smarter on that one.

*Why did Cas go down so easy and almost end up killed? He has his grace back and I remember him with stolen grace being able to grab demon Dean at the beginning of the season to save Sam. Is there something I'm missing on that?

I told my watching partner, it makes me want to write my own ending where Cas goes to Heaven to fetch Bobby so he can help co-ordinate a plan to save the Idgits!

That is probably the watching past seasons talking right there.

Didn't hate it but was disappointed at many parts of it.
14th-May-2015 02:33 pm (UTC)
*I just don't get why Sam went in to kill Crowley just armed with what Rowena gave him. Why would he trust her hex bag? I missed Sam being smarter on that one.

Yeah, good question. I pondered this also. My thinking is Sam didn't know how to kill Crowley. He is the King of Hell after all. He knows Rowena really wanted him dead so assumed her hex would work. Sam doesn't have anything in his arsenal to kill Crowley (that knife wouldn't have either I don't think).

*Why did Cas go down so easy and almost end up killed?

This is the biggest problem I have with the episode. How did MoC!Dean beat and angel And also - why wasn't Cas called to try and save Charlie once the boys found her? How did he not know everything that was going on? I can only assume he's more "human" than he's ever been. On twitter, someone suggested he has no power because he's cut off from heaven. To be honest, I have no idea. I don't why they gave Cas his juice and now he can't use it. He could hold demon!Dean but not MoC!Dean? My "fanon" is that he didn't want to hurt Dean AND he felt he need the beat down because he failed Charlie (much like Sam felt he deserved Dean's wrath at the funeral).

it makes me want to write my own ending where Cas goes to Heaven to fetch Bobby so he can help co-ordinate a plan to save the Idgits!

Oh please!!! These idjits need saving! From themselves! :(( (and yes, yes, do write something!)

That is probably the watching past seasons talking right there.

Yeah, hard that. The boys have never been so hateful toward each other as they have been these last 3 seasons. Carver likes his drama!

Edited at 2015-05-14 02:33 pm (UTC)
14th-May-2015 02:03 pm (UTC)
I just don't care about any of them right now. They are all awful people. At least Crowley is vaguely interesting again.

Which is sad, because Pedowitz at the Upfronts this morning pretty much guaranteed this show will only end when J2 don't need money for the #boathouse anymore lol
14th-May-2015 02:42 pm (UTC)
Just such awful people. It makes me remember that I like it when they rise above the awful people they hunt, not become them. But this was about becoming the monster right?

because Pedowitz at the Upfronts this morning pretty much guaranteed this show will only end when J2

Oh good. I'm glad you mentioned that here. I saw it on twitter, then couldn't find it again to comment (yeah, I'm that inept). So, the Js run this show? As in, they'll decide when this is over? As far as I can see that will be…never! Surely show will have run its course by - if not the next season, surely the one after? I mean, how many times can we end with Sam or Dean dying?!

(though I like that Pedowitz is so supportive. Is there actually money in this show now though?).

Hmmm, so many question marks...
14th-May-2015 02:14 pm (UTC)
I could squee and I could bitch. I saw brilliance and I saw major fail. I'm just…what is this show?!

This is me right now.I liked a few things, but overall I hate the storyline and have all season. I am also very disappointed in the writers, because I know they can do better than this.

But I am here for the duration, however long it lasts. However disappointed and angry I get.

Because I remember what was and AUs fix it all. I just wish it didn't have to be fixed, that's all.

Wow, got longwinded. Sorry.
14th-May-2015 03:13 pm (UTC)
I am also very disappointed in the writers, because I know they can do better than this.

But they don't have to? Ok, cynical I know, but I think they know they have a dedicated fan base that will stick by because these characters have latched onto out hearts and just won't let go.

Wow, got longwinded. Sorry.

Oh hun, you really didn't. You should see the ep reaction I started writing for this ep. 10 paragraphs in and I thought - this will never end! So, I hear ya. They continue to kill us by tearing apart the very thing we watch this show for. We know the boys will be back together, but each time they get back there's added baggage that's surely got to get to heavy to carry one day. :(

Saving grace? We know we have another 23 eps ahead and most of them will be them working side by side together. :)
14th-May-2015 02:19 pm (UTC)
I ended up more satisfied than I've felt in a while! Dean's rampage reminded me of that classic moment in "Raiders of the Lost Ark" when Indy pulls out the gun and shoots the guy, like, "F*** this, it's time to move on." The Stynes were clichéd, annoying, time-wasting bad guys, and I was practically whooping at the screen as Dean coldly and efficiently got rid of them one by one.

I have yet to understand why a battle between angels, or between an angel and a human, is a FIST FIGHT, so my response to the Dean-Cas smackdown was, "Whatever."

Sam is an idiot. He reminds me of all the overeducated people I've worked with over the years who can't figure out how to hit the green button on the copier to make a copy.

I would LOVE to see Crowley go Full Evil. The actor's got the chops for it - let's put him to work, and give the boys a fully layered, worthy adversary.
14th-May-2015 03:03 pm (UTC)
I did enjoy seeing the Stynes just owed down. "They're like gods in this town." "I kill gods." BAM!!!!!

ETA: I LOVED seeing Crowley "hulk out" at the end!! that little red mist coming from his eyes!!! YEAH!

Edited at 2015-05-14 03:04 pm (UTC)
14th-May-2015 02:26 pm (UTC)
I watched three eps in a row, which I actually think helped improve the coherency of the whole thing. And I actually watched! Not watch...ff....watch...and so on. I thought all three episodes were....pretty good. Fine. Not as good as our best certainly, but much better than our worst. (And I completely agree with you about the Claire episode - best episode of that story arc by far)

As for this one....if I am working under the assumption that Dean was under the influence of the mark when he made the comment to Sam about wishing Sam was dead, then I think the vast majority of the episode works. If this is the new Dean, then I will feel very differently.

Because it is a law of the universe that Dean does NOT want Sam dead.

Just saying. :)
15th-May-2015 01:12 pm (UTC)
Dean was absolutely under the influence of the Mark. Totally. For a man who has done pretty questionable things to save Sam, this is not the man who'd wish he was dead. I think it was the biggest indication that he was not himself in anyway.

I also love the way the flash back highlighted Dean's hypocrisy. We saw him apologising to Charlie for beating her up. Something that was out of his control and here he was telling Sam he could not say sorry - for something that was ultimately out of his control. It was a nice and subtle way of showing us that Dean is not thinking clearly (though, um, I probably have more thinky about this - namely about Dean stopping Sam from grieving a few times now - John, Kevin and now Charlie - but I think that's much deeper than I think show is deserving atm…;D).

I enjoyed the intensity of it all. There were some layers of interesting character notes (Sam saying that he's been "out there messed up, scared and alone" makes me ponder when exactly that's been. Sam seems to cope being alone much more than Dean does. And Dean's way of saving Sam is bringing him back with massive consequences to not only the world but mostly to Sam. It's kind of fascinating, and Dean continues to be very hypocritical about what he can do and what Sam can do. I think Show is finally showing that).
14th-May-2015 03:06 pm (UTC)
Pretty sure the Dean who admitted he'd rather have Sam burning on the pyre, instead of Charlie, is the MOC influenced Dean, but how sad is it that we're not sure? I honestly feel Dean is holding so much resentment toward Sam, that a part of him really does feel that way.

I want to see Sam succeed in everything he does, but I was relieved when he (Rowena) failed to kill Crowley. I felt so conflicted during that scene.

I've been holding out heaps of hope that Sam will finally be the one to save Dean, and I still posses a little of that hope, but with only one more episode to go this season, I'm now wondering if the MOC story is going to continue into next season, especially now that the Stynes are out of the picture... not really sure how I feel about that, except that I'm growing weary of this Dean, so I guess that means I'm ready for a change.

Overall I enjoyed the episode, and I look forward to checking back later to see the conversation going on here... this kind of 'review' is a great idea.

15th-May-2015 01:24 pm (UTC)
but how sad is it that we're not sure?

I actually had no doubt. I think that's why I coped with this episode much better than I thought I would. When I saw the spoilers I wasn't sure, but after seeing it, it really became obvious. The mark has well and truly taken over and Sam bore the brunt of it in those first scenes. The sad thing for me was Sam acting like he deserved Dean's wrath - even though he knows it wasn't actually Dean talking.

I felt so conflicted during that scene.

I was too. I actually wanted Sam to kill Crowley (it's been a long time coming) but when he didn't and Crowley returned to full on evil, I was happy about it. I've never understood why the boys have not tried to kill Crowley before (especially after he killed Sarah) so I was happy to finally see an attempt (and Sam was awesome in that scene!).

I hope the MoC concludes this season (or changes direction at least). I'm not sure the Stynes are out of the picture though? Didn't they mention there were heaps of them? I'm thinking revenge is on the way maybe? I would be cool with that. I don't mind them as a "big bad".

I enjoyed the episode, but I think it had some problems. And it's always hard to watch the brothers at massive odds. Though with Dean not Dean is makes it easier. SO much better than last season's "at odds". That was the worse (imho)

14th-May-2015 03:23 pm (UTC)
Castiel will allow himself to be destroyed before he ever EVER steps up and stops Dean going full on off the reservation!

Sam's breaking my heart, quite literally, but finally we get to see that he IS capable and WILLING to save Dean. No more Sammy ney saying thank goodness!

I did actually enjoy it, quite a bit! And next week is scaring the holy hell out of me.
15th-May-2015 01:38 pm (UTC)
Castiel will allow himself to be destroyed before he ever EVER steps up and stops Dean going full on off the reservation!

Meaning he'd let Dean go off the reservation without using his angel powers? If so, I wonder why? I thought maybe it was maybe Cas didn't want to hurt Dean (and felt he deserved the beating after Charlie) but if Cas would rather be destroyed over saving Dean then that's interesting…

but finally we get to see that he IS capable and WILLING to save Dean. No more Sammy ney saying thank goodness!

Hee, well. I have rather major thinky about this. I think we've always seen and known that Sam would do anything for Dean. He's always been willing and definitely capable. For me, I saw strength in him saying that he WOULDN'T cross certain lines to save Dean last season. I actually thought Sam was seeing the devastation they cause when they continue to sacrifice themselves, others and the world to save each other. But, it seems not. I do love their crazy, ridiculous love but at the moment everyone is telling Sam what he already worked out last season (lying is bad!!!), so now we have Sam being the only one apparently not seeing it. Dean now "gets" it and has been trying to convince Sam, but in some sort of ironic way Sam now HAS to save Dean in order to save the world. Pretty screwy stuff!! (it's the part I really love about the show…*g*). Sam actually has no real option now (whereas Dean actually did have options when he brought Sam back from the dead) - if he doesn't stop Dean many innocent people could suffer.

It will be interesting to see what Sam lets loose into the world when he casts a spell to save Dean. If it means that he does something to Dean that he knows he'll hate (like when he let Sam be possessed) then they'll be making an awesome statement. Not sure it will go there, but I'll be impressed if it does…:)

(sorry, that was long winded. Said stuff that I was going to say in my review…;D)

14th-May-2015 03:49 pm (UTC)
Got 6 minutes in, turned it off, went out, haven't seen the rest yet, not sure if I even want to.
14th-May-2015 03:55 pm (UTC)
I saw your post hun. xx Um, I'd suggest the rest if you can, as those 6 minutes are really just Dean not being Dean. This ep is such a mixed bag. No one comes off as "nice". It's all darkness and death. Jensen is a thing to behold though. His performance as "other" is worth watching. There's something about this no-nonsense, ruthless Dean that's interesting. But it's not Dean, so it's like watching a monster that they'll have to do something with sooner rather than later. More sinister than Demon!Dean. I suppose they've been heading here all season. Hopefully they'll put the is horrid Dean behind them once he's cured.
14th-May-2015 04:02 pm (UTC)
This was my reaction after ep @@...!!!!

Im gonna rewatch tonight to get a better feel because SOooo much happened. things I loved:
-Dean slaughtering that entire clan with nary a sweat!
-Crowley!! you actually scared me with Dem red eyes yo! Finally the King of Hell is back!
-Sammy, you poor schmuck, I love you but your really off your game this season. Although I LOVED his emoting to Cas about how much he owes his brother because ...yeah. but what I mean is that he really shouldnt let Rowena yank his chain, he could really put a hurt on her IF he wanted to. just saying..maybe he needs to get a little more serious about what he wants her to do?
-The threat to he bunker! OMG I was a ball of tense during that scene. I think I love the bunker more than the Impala and they can never lose their home!
-Dean is coming home! ...talk about ominous, never have I heard those words sound so dam scary.
Show is still got me this emotional after 10 years then that is something...was it perfect? no, but again, after 10 years and we are all still invested? that's incredible, IMO. Also, like somebody else mentioned, I had a hard time "liking" either of the boys this ep, but I dont think we are necessarily supposed to like them right now. We are supposed to feel their pain and anguish and how external forces have forged/changed them....at least thats what I have taken away from it. Couldnt help but reminisce about how far they have come since season 1 when they were babies. Isnt that real life though? we are NOT the same people we were 10 years ago either and none of us have gone through the trauma these boys have, so show is realistic in that...
Things I did NOT like:
-Dean speech to Sam about how it should be him on the pyre. (cries--I refuse to believe that was the real Dean btw)
-The Cas beat down, not that I have a prob with Dean beating Cas but it was very convenient that he could.
-the Sammy replacement anvil. Show your as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face..lol. I know a lot of people are bemoaning his death, but honestly, I dont know that I would have let him go either...conflicted.

Is it wed yet?

Edited at 2015-05-14 04:05 pm (UTC)
15th-May-2015 02:03 pm (UTC)
*nods* I agree with much of this! There were some great, intense moments.

The bunker under threat was nerve wrecking. Seeing those books and Dean's belongings about to burn! ARCK!

The Cas beat down didn't make much sense to me. Cas, an angel of the lord, should have easily bested moc!Dean. I have to assume that Cas either isn't full power or he didn't want to hurt Dean.

Sam has been all over the place this season - mostly because they just haven't really known what to do with him. This has been about Dean's story and journey mostly, so what Sam is doing hasn't been the main focus (though good to see him actually do something in the last few eps *g*).

The Sammy replacement anvil was, um…curious. Were we supposed to think that Dean could kill Sam this easily? That Sam actually saw Dean and John as monsters? I think it showed the deep resentment that Dean (probably) still feels about Sam. Normal Dean is well over it, but whenever Dean is "other" he still thinks of Sam as a monster and a burden. It's sad, but I also think it's been consistent for Dean throughout the series. Dean clearly loves Sam (and would never say what he did at the funeral), but I think there's still some deep issues he harbours against Sam. :((

I'm looking forward to the next ep!

14th-May-2015 04:27 pm (UTC)
Even though I knew nothing was going to happen to Sam in this ep, I was still scared when Crowley was standing over him, ready to snap his fingers. Crowley hasn't been scary for a couple of years now, but there was so much quiet menace in that moment, it had my heart in my throat.

I'm glad for your poll, because I'd been thinking from Twitter that I was the only one who thought this episode wasn't half bad. Or at least, it had some great moments, and the rest was the sloppy writing that I've sadly come to expect from S10. :/
14th-May-2015 08:40 pm (UTC)
Yes yes, me too! I want demons to be formidable and scary, not vaguely sarcastic and avuncular - and at last, Crowley actually frightened me!
14th-May-2015 05:10 pm (UTC)
I really don't know which box to tick in the poll... perhaps all of them this time? Urgh. Idk. *reads comments*
15th-May-2015 02:12 pm (UTC)
Thats how I feel! I can't click either! The comments are interesting (as usual! *g*)
14th-May-2015 05:12 pm (UTC)
Well, this has never happened before. I didn't even answer your poll because I don't know *how* to answer it.

The episode was AWFUL.
And I LOVED it.
But so much of it was horribly terrific.

Is that how you feel? It's how I feel. (Also, Dean looks really great being Evil. Cas is a bleeder, not a bruiser. Good to know after all this time. Crowley might be terrifying in S11. Sam needs to eat a sandwich.)

ETA: I just read thru your comments, and THANK GOD it isn't just me! I couldn't figure out WHAT was going on with Castiel. He's totally OOC re powers, and even if he allowed Dean to beat him down, I can't buy that he'd allow Dean to pull an angel sword on him. *smh*

Edited at 2015-05-14 05:59 pm (UTC)
15th-May-2015 01:17 am (UTC)

The episode was AWFUL.

And I LOVED it.


But so much of it was horribly terrific.


Hahahahaha. This is TOTALLY a reflection of how I feel.

17th-May-2015 09:55 am (UTC)

I really sympathize with Sam, because what choice does he have really?

Exactly! He's been given no choices and even though he knows the consequences will be bad he knows that it's only what Dean would do to save him. He's between a rock and a hard place.

but this is something that has continued on since the beginning of the season and Dean is under the influence of the moc.

I agree! Dean was clearly under the influence at the funeral - and I think through much of the season. It's messed so much with both of them.

I agree it feels more organic this season. It's been a slow burn. I haven't been thrilled with Sam's lack of voice or action (until now), but it's good to see them both involved as we near the finale. It still surprises me how much blame Sam still gets for last season - and now he's being blamed for making a "bad" decision - it just seems he can't win, no matter what he does. I often think this is part of his journey - fighting against all odds, failing, but keeping on going. Man, I hope he has some success in the finale (and that Dean realises what he's put Sam through. Taking on the Mark was always going to mess with Sam…).

I think we're going to need nerves of steel for the finale!

14th-May-2015 06:41 pm (UTC)
I loved everything about this one. It was incredibly intense and painful, and really had me at the edge of my seat. Can't wait for the finale.
15th-May-2015 02:19 pm (UTC)
yay! Great to hear it! It was most definitely intense!!
14th-May-2015 08:00 pm (UTC)
my takeaway from this episode- Sam was fucked over and set up by Rowena to fail.
Dean is still a dictorial a-hole. i hated those those quotes from him to Sam-*Shut up,you got her killed, you dont get to apologize, it should be you up there not her* i dont care if he was under the influence of the mark, those are harsh words that hurt Sam. i didnt understand the last 5 mins to ending

Edited at 2015-05-14 08:04 pm (UTC)
15th-May-2015 02:24 pm (UTC)
Sam was fucked over and set up by Rowena to fail.

Hmmm, interesting. That wasn't my take at all. I think Rowena definitely though the hex bag would take him out. Though one has to wonder why she wouldn't have done this earlier. She would have had a chance I'm sure. So, yeah. Maybe she did set Sam up (though not sure what her end game would be because she'd be left in the warehouse and she'd also know she'd have Crowley after her).

MoC!Dean definitely brings out the very worse aspects of Dean. He is definitely dictatorial at times (and it's caused a few issues between them), but being possessed like this makes it so much worse!

And those words were supposed to hurt Sam. Dean is out for blood and I'm afraid Sam is in the firing line (which is why I never understood why he wasn't desperate to find a cure!).

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