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10.23 reaction / a few thoughts 
22nd-May-2015 09:21 am
Sam with Heron
I don't have my laptop (or access to a computer) so just flying by with a few thoughts on the episodes. The poll will have to wait until I return home (after the con \o/)

I don't want to harsh anyone's squee so I'm not going to list the issues I had with it. I will say, that I'm very relieved that I wasn't sobbing wreck by the end (which I was prepared for). Instead I felt a certain amount of relief. Relief that it looks like the MoC story is over and the boys are back to normal and their relationship seems to have been healed somewhat. It looks like they've been fully "reset" which means I'm not nervous about next season (yet). It mostly looks like they're in whatever they're in together - which is something that hasn't happened for - well, ever? (Will have to ponder thst some more...maybe when the demons were released from hell?).

The biggest thing I've come away with is that it's just easier not to think too hard about the show any more. It cemented that there aren't really any through-lines or season by season character journey arcs, so there's no point looking for that any more. Season endings (esp last two) are about giving us the epic bromance moment (not complaining!!!) and having that as a bandaid for anything that's been said and done previously between them. I seriously need to stop expecting it to be any more than that by now.

I loved the intensity of the scene between the brothers at the end. I did have a little tear with Sam's pleading eyes (and thinking about Jared at the moment) and just thinking that he's been hurt and used so much, that it seemed like a fitting ending if Dean did actually kill him. *sob*.

I have a few questions, but one really burning one: I don't fully understarnd what happen to dean. One minute he's a murdering badass and utter dick, then he looks in the mirror and sees the 2 people he's hurt (not going to deny I would have loved him to flash back to the way he hurt Sam at the funeral), and he then is able to fight the mark enough to call death? Did he regain control of the mark again then? But then when Death was there he said some more horrid things to Sam (seriously, if that had been Sam he would have been slaughter by fandom by now!) and it looked like the mark had taken grip again. THEN he gained control (after Sam's undying love and devotion was made SUPER DUPER clear). So yeah, I lost the thread there. I think Dean was fighting it, and failing sometimes but not all the time. And why does Dean (Carver) continue to blame things on Sam - refusing death his soul and not shutting the gates of hell for two... And does Dean really think Sam is selfish? Still? Or is that just payback for Sam saying it to him (*oops* there I go, trying to make sense of it all..).

I said in a review recently thst 'I want the boys to burn the world for each other". Looks like they have!! If they're going to show us their unwavering co-dependency I'm glad they're showing us the potential world ending result of it. Will the boys ever see the destruction of it? Clearly no, because they wouldn't be able to give us finales like that. Also, I don't think they're meant to. They've tried, many times, but it always comes back to the two of them destroying, then mending the world. All because of their massive love, needs and faith in each other. Is it right? Ha! Clearly no, but man, who cares. This is fantasy. And what ultimately draws me to the show.

I am glad Sam didn't fail, I am glad we have the brothers back on the same page (I think! I thought that after s4, then we had a season of Dean not trusting Sam and it was a very dark season. Oh man, will they do that? Will Dean STILL be hating on Sam for unleashing the spell...ok, now I might have a reason to cry. I'm am too tired of the contrived issues between then. And I am sick of dean's hypocrisy. If they take dean and Sam down that repeated route....*stops*. No speculating).

And now I'm curious to see how they get out of this one! (Though looks like s mix of leviathans and demons when they were realised on the world). Love it to be really, really dark - but I can't see how when they're a bit restricted by their format and budget. But still, new big bad (along with Rowena and possible the Stynes). Plenty to see them through s11 I'd think. :).

I hope to write up more about s10 generally, but as I think there's no real connection between episodes or past events it's possibly not going to happen. And that's ok because I think it might just be all easier to watch episode by episode, moment by moment.

Let's just hope Sam get a new hair style. Is that too much to hope for?!

I'd love to hear your thoughts but I may not be able to respond for a while. I'm with my family and then the con. Xx
21st-May-2015 11:41 pm (UTC)
yay for the con!!!!!

yeah i run into people all the time that have binged watched Supernatural on Netflix and they love it!!!!

I did enjoy the finale. Like what are they going to do about the "Darkness"? eeeeek!!! but i saw a lot of plot holes? questions i had? they changed how the Mark came about?

but overall i enjoyed it!!

have a great time at the con!!!!! ooh oooh i follow you on twitter!!! take pictures!!!
22nd-May-2015 11:02 am (UTC)
I'm a bit confused about the whole mark thing tbh. I'll have to go back and listen to what Death said and then what Cain had said to see what I missed. I'm trying to *handwave* most of it as I can't figure out how some of it fits. I'm not sure it matters in the end (bit like the whole shutting the gates of hell story line), it pretty much came down to love saving each other. :)

And thanks! I'll try and take pics and post. I'm not close, so I probably won't get anything good (but I'll tweet what I can. *G*).
21st-May-2015 11:44 pm (UTC)
but hey you know what will make you smile? the Supernatural Parody!! it's just like wow!!!! i've watched it 10 times and smiled and laughed and felt better all around!!

(if you haven't see it yet)

22nd-May-2015 12:39 am (UTC)
I've seen it and I love it!! So happy making. Adore the cast dancing at the end. No matter what I think of the show at times the dedication and joy from this cast and crew is simply wonderful. It also shone through in the episode.

My fave bit? Chains slow mo hair moment. I was laughing out loud!!!

Who are those girls I wonder? It was a professional job, so assuming industry peeps. It was just what was needed after the ep!! Happiness!!
22nd-May-2015 12:06 am (UTC)
Yeah, for the first time the mid season episodes were stronger than the ending ones (still drooling over Cain and that Werther Project Men of Letters flashback), but I'm glad we still have Rowena, who's a fantastic actress.

As for season 11...we've got a summer of fanwork until then, I personally am looking forward to what everyone is creating during hellatus :-D
22nd-May-2015 12:57 am (UTC)
This hellatus will be CHOCK FULL of fanworks! (I'm really happy about this and can't wait for all the goodies!)
22nd-May-2015 12:40 am (UTC)
Yeah, my reaction was just disappointment, not fury, which I think means it's time to be a fan of the fandom and the cast, and a casual viewer of the show.

Okay, there was *some* fury at Dean's completely unnecessary "dressed like a whore" comment.

ETA: added two words for clarity

Edited at 2015-05-22 12:41 am (UTC)
22nd-May-2015 11:16 am (UTC)
Yeah, the slut comment was a shock. Probably there for just that, but it seems that they're not that interested in challenging these stereotypes. I know Berens would never have written that.

I've been much happier with the episode because of fandom. I came off it confused and a little disappointed (that they didn't really push the boundaries), but I am now happier that at least Sam didn't end as "the baddy" and Dean having a reason to be pissed with him next season (hopefully!). They both had a hand in what happened so neither have cause for "its your fault".
22nd-May-2015 12:52 am (UTC)
Did he regain control of the mark again then? But then when Death was there he said some more horrid things to Sam...

I think Dean was fighting it, and failing sometimes but not all the time.

I've been thinking about this today, too. It seemed to me that Dean set it up to summon Death and then call Sam to come to where they were so he could continue to bait Death into thinking he'd actually kill Sam. He kept saying horrible things to Sam to try and antagonize him further so he'd be mad enough to fight, to make the "show" for Death even more believable? But then Sam brought out the pictures (and I sniffled because Sam on his knees and Dean's "Sammy, close your eyes") it seemed to be a SS moment to bring Dean back to his senses. IDK it was a weird scene, most definitely, but it certainly worked to fool Death.

It was sort of a contrived way to get the boys back on the same page and show they'd do anything for each other, and thank the stars the mark is gone, but this is Carver we're talking about lol.

So, either it was a legitimate set up by Dean or Carver just jumbled his way through it. I want to think it was the latter.

Jensen has said he wants the boys working together again as brothers/hunters/just plain humans doing what they do best so I'm hoping Carver *finally* gives us that in S11.

Hope you have a fantastic time at AHBL6 this weekend!
22nd-May-2015 11:36 am (UTC)
I wondered if Dean was setting up Death, but then I couldn't figure out why he would do that - unless he changed his mind once he appeared. I felt like he was actually prepared to kill Sam, but just couldn't do it when Sam brought out those big puppy eyes. But yeah, I really don't know. I'm not sure Jensen was clear on it either maybe? MoC!Dean or normal Dean. (If I had the courage I'd ask him during the con, but I doubt I'd be able to ask...). Maybe someone else will.

But glad mark is gone and hopefully all the issues between them take a back seat and they fight stuff together now. :)
22nd-May-2015 01:09 am (UTC)
I got up at 4:15 to watch it this morning on Hulu and for me the entire thing was showing us (finally!) why Dean needed to be saved. I just hadn't seen it before, even when he killed that Styne kid (who had just eviscerated an obnoxious but otherwise pretty innocent bully) I couldn't SEE what Sam and Cas and Charlie were risking their lives for. I mean, I guess we knew because we had Cain as an example of what Dean could become, but Demon!Dean was such a sad, lonely man, and supposedly "getting worse" Dean just wasn't, as far as I could see (most of the people he killed were seriously bad people, so it was hard to be too concerned...) Sam's devotion and desperation were perfect, but it felt like Dean's lack of real badness worked against Sam's (wonderful!) obsessive need to save his brother, so that's my main gripe about the entire season, I guess.

That said, OMG I loved this episode. All the angst and desperation, both from Sam and Dean, and that incredible scene in the Mexican restaurant -- with the Day of the Dead mural -- all so macabre and intense and perfectly played by both Js! And the MoC is gone! Yay! And Sam really did the saving, so I'm good :)
27th-May-2015 12:35 pm (UTC)
(just replied to you recent comment and now I'm replying to this older one. Sorry for the delay…).

I agree that it was finally great to see what Dean was becoming. They kept saying "dean is getting worse" but we weren't really seeing a lot more than that we sometimes see from the normal Dean. I think his comments about the dead woman and the way he reacted to the grieving parents were a clear indication of what he was becoming. It wasn't JUST about his violence, but also his utter disregard for anyone. We could see the danger he was going to be to everyone - he was losing so much of himself.

The scene in the Mexican restaurant was powerful. The js really gave it everything.
22nd-May-2015 01:16 am (UTC)
The biggest thing I've come away with is that it's just easier not to think too hard about the show any more.

Ditto. I mean, we read SO much into it sometimes, and bring so much of our own baggage ... I've discovered it's a no-win proposition. Two things have made this season more enjoyable for me: 1.) not thinking so hard and 2.) staying clear of spoilers! It's tough, but man, has it made watching the show so much more pleasant.

Gotta couple observations about the finale, though.

Jensen has been playing Dean's fury with cold calculation. It flares out in waves of destruction, but it isn't chaotic. I've actually kinda enjoyed it, in an iddy "Oh, god, I shouldn't find this so hot" sorta way. Would I have liked to have seen a little more crazy, out-of-control-ness? Yeah, it might've rang a little more true, but hey, I ain't complaining too hard about the pretty.

And does Dean really think Sam is selfish? Still? Yes, because one of Dean's core characteristics is his hypocrisy. He KNOWS it. "Don't quote me to me!" But also, hey, he's not exactly wrong either. Sam is doggedly clinging to "saving Dean" because he can't bear to fail again. Sam, of all people, understands sacrifice for the greater good, but he came to the realization this year that he cannot live without Dean. So yeah, it's a little selfish. But Dean is faaaar from innocent by these same standards. As unhealthy as it is, they are obsessively tied to each other. Deliciously, steadfastly, obsessively, endlessly tied to each other. It's sick, and it's beautiful. And it may just bring the world crashing down around them.

But you know what?


When Dean told Sam to close his eyes, I turned to goo. Sam--beaten, surrendering, tears and blood on his lovely, lovely face--refusing to believe Dean is anything but a good man? No matter what? That right there is insane but so very delicious. And perfect, in my eyes. Because yeah, this is make-believe. I don't want it to be reasonable and logical and balanced. IRL, it'd be horrific. But in fiction? It's hella hot. Not sorry at all. Not even a little.

PS...maybe we can Tulpa some better hair for Sammy, eh? :D
22nd-May-2015 01:54 am (UTC)
As much as our expectations fluctuate with a low-budget show that's run for ten years and punches out one episode every eight days, it remains one of my favorites because nowhere else will you find that raw, tender friendship between two men in their mid-30's on TV <3
22nd-May-2015 03:50 am (UTC)
I like the fact that they both screwed the world this time.... equal opportunity Armageddon.

Dean killed off Death (lol, only this show), Sam made the big, bad spell happen (actually still pretty unclear about that, but that is likely due to my lackadaisical viewing), and together our boys unleashed the Big Bad - to me it a dark mirror of the angels falling a couple seasons ago - one of the prettiest special effects. And it was creepy. I do love what this show does with the small budget it has.

Sam's expression reminded me so much of his face when he unloosed Lucifer way back when (now, that was a cliffhanger....wow, remember how powerful and terrifying and intense that finale felt?

But you know, we have to give credit where it's due....our little show really is doing fairly well after ten seasons. So much of "prestige" television consists of 6 episode seasons, sometimes aired years apart. Our show keeps on telling us stories, year after year after year. Our poor Jared is testament to that. To me, it's kind of a miracle that our show is still as good as it is. I think it's okay to enjoy it for what it is, and there's an awful lot I still enjoy.

If you feel like the best is behind us fandom-wise (and of course, it probably is, but realistically how could it not be?), just re-watch that 200th episode again, smile at the songs and the sweetness and the the genuine genius of this cast and crew, and who knows? Show may just surprise us again.

Have so much fun at your convention! (((hugs)))

28th-May-2015 07:49 am (UTC)
I like the fact that they both screwed the world this time.... equal opportunity Armageddon.

That's what I loved! I am SO glad they didn't just make Sam the one who screwed up things (though, I've seen posts stating that it IS all Sam's fault because his spell let the darkness loose. I've decided that there are some who will always blame Sam, so I gotta just let it go…). Dean killing Death has GOT to have some major repercussions and it felt like it contributed to the finale resulting darkness. I enjoyed the intensity of the final scene between the boys.

And I agree - the show does a remarkable job considering their budget. I get frustrated with their lack of continuity in the story telling, but I'm trying to let it go because there's still so much I love about it.

22nd-May-2015 06:22 am (UTC)
Definitely not my favorite finale, but Jared knocked it out of the park, and Jensen did great with what he was given - I'm agreeing with you on how Dean's characterization was a little odd. But we got boys fighting for each other, and the MoC gone, so I'm good with it.

I really feel like this sets us up to have exactly what Jensen talked about wanting at a recent con - the boys fighting TOGETHER against an external force, trying to do good. That's the show to me, and I feel like we're going in that direction and that excites me!

Also, yes, please god let Jared get a new haircut over hiatus that carries on into s11 #SayNoToBob.
22nd-May-2015 10:29 am (UTC)
Yes, in many ways I look forward to the next season more than I did when demon!Dean opened his eyes, because, cool storytelling aside, the best s10 episodes were the ones where everyone worked together against an outside force (unf Executioners Song).
22nd-May-2015 07:23 am (UTC)
Enjoy your special weekend! :D

I did enjoy this ep and was completely unspoiled for it and without expectations. I don't think Dean was really fighting the mark as such anymore. The guilt flashes in front of the mirror got him even more confused and made him come up with this ridiculous plan. In my thinking the mark let him go along with his plan because he would kill Sam in the process and that is what the mark was after. The most evil thing ever, killing your own brother. I also don't think that it was Dean fighting the mark when he ended up killing Death. I believe he was as suprised as anyone else. It was the core goodness and love for Sam that diverted the scythe in the most crucial of moments and it went straight for the next best kill due to the mark. I don't think Dean was clear in the head (at all!)throughout this episode and only came to when the mark left him.
As a thought on the side: when Dean saw Castiel in the mirror it suddenly made sense to me that Castiel didn't fight back in the previous ep (as an actor's choice). Otherwise it wouldn't have worked for the guilt feelings that seeped through.
I loved the overwhelming darkness coming out of the ground in the end but I think it is a set up for disappointment for the future. I mean where can they go from here? A black screen due to all the darkenss? lol. sorry. Silly humour. But still... we'll see, huh? In for the ride.. and the wait for next season.. watching.. forever. lol. I'm picturing a few sceletons in front of a TV and the words written underneath:"die hard fans". haha ;D

Oh, and I'm really starting to like Rowena. I didn't even think that was possible. lol. Perhaps she can hex a new hairstyle on Sam?... ;)

Hoping to see you sharing lots of impressions from the con when you are back! :D

28th-May-2015 08:20 am (UTC)
I saw that you loved the episode when you posted on your journal! I was going to comment there - but then got caught up.../o\

In my thinking the mark let him go along with his plan because he would kill Sam in the process and that is what the mark was after.

Ah, that's interesting. I can go with that. I wasn't sure what was happening with him at times, but I can accept the Mark was playing with him - as it has done throughout the season.

It was the core goodness and love for Sam that diverted the scythe in the most crucial of moments and it went straight for the next best kill due to the mark.

Oooh, I like that idea also. I felt that Sam had somehow got through to Dean with his sheer emotion, but I also love that the mark was driving him to kill pretty much anything.

Otherwise it wouldn't have worked for the guilt feelings that seeped through.

*nods* in hindsight it does work better this way.

I mean where can they go from here? A black screen due to all the darkenss?

Ha! A whole episode in pure blackess :D. MAybe we'll have to just listen to the dialogue and imagine what is happening. :D

Perhaps she can hex a new hairstyle on Sam?... ;)


22nd-May-2015 11:48 am (UTC)
i will take this finale over last year's. some positives, some negatives, overall, much better than last year. positives-no killing Sam,Sam won, no metatron. negatives-rowena, castiel, and crowley. whatever problems i could of had with it were avoided by the not killing Sam. my grade for this ep is B. this *Darkness thing is soundly weirdly like the 1st evil on Buffy, i hope not. im interested to see what happens next season, hopefully there's a continuation of that scene, if not, i'll feel like i came back for nothing and its the same cycle all over again. now it seems like there will be a clean slate but everything could change. i will stay in a happy place knowing this finale is much better than last year. it has helped grading each episode, i think i might do it again next season. the beginning-A, middle-F, end-C. i cant wait to hear your thoughts! *in my happy place*
28th-May-2015 08:22 am (UTC)
I'm hoping for a clean slate also. They can put the last 3 seasons behind them and start a fresh as brothers who don't hate on each other, don't blame each other and start to feel the trust again. If they start fighting early on, I think I will just cry.

So glad to hear you're happier with this episode and finale than you have been. It's always a nicer place to be with the show. :))
22nd-May-2015 12:15 pm (UTC)
While this wasn't a perfect episode, I think for the epic Sam and Dean moments alone, I'm willing to forgive and maybe even forget some aspects.

Dean's thread was confusing. I think I'm going to just see Rudy's death being the catalyst for him giving up (would have been doubly more awesome if it was Cas's death, but at this point I don't want the boys to lose yet another ally) and that he's been MoC driven since the Stynes because I can't see him actually accepting Sam's death, let alone the idea of killing him, without the Marks influence. And of course with Dean, it was family that brought him back.

The emotions and painful feels from the Sam and Dean scenes gave me all the dread and heartbreak I was craving from a finale; they were overwhelming and kind of hard to watch (doubly so, since now I get why JP is so emotionally drained and exhausted). But most of all it gave me what I really really wanted; screwed up brothers who will basically kill the world because they simply can't live without each other.

I truly had no idea where this episode was heading. I sort of figured we'd see the end of the Mark, and that a new a big bad was coming, but I thought that maybe we'd get Rowena and (boring) Metatron. So I'm thrilled by the idea 'The Darkness' and I'm intrigued by 'otherness' feel of it, and how they're going to show us that next season.

I was relived that we didn't have another death, and I too hope to see a united Winchester front against 'the darkness'.

I hope you have a wonderful time at the con, and I'm looking forward to hearing all about it when you get back!!

22nd-May-2015 01:07 pm (UTC)
I think Dean, still under the influence of the MOC, but also somewhat himself, intended to go through with killing Sam. Both Sam and Dean, but especially Dean, seemed shocked at the actual outcome.

In the end, both brother's were willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good, but at the last second some unknown force intervened... at least that's the way I'm choosing to see that scene, and that, even over 'the darkness' has me excited for next season.

I wasn't expecting thoughts from you until after the con, so it was an extra nice surprise to see your write-up. Hope you have a wonderful time this weekend, and thank-you so very much for all the episode review/discussion this season.
28th-May-2015 09:45 am (UTC)

I wasn't going to write anything up, but then I felt like I needed to say a few things. :)) I posted it on my iPad, which is sometimes a bit tricky…

And yes, I didn't think about the fact that they were both prepared to die to save the world. Dean was going to kill Sam and then have Death kill him. I didn't think about "some unknown force intervening", but perhaps between Death and the spell (and maybe even God??) something else happened. Hmmmm, curious…( and actually, I love the idea that there might be an external force constantly preventing them from actually dying - so, it's not just "them" stopping it, but some other external force).

22nd-May-2015 01:42 pm (UTC)
I enjoyed this finale though I didn't find it all that tense (except for the obvious scene between Sam and Dean at the end). I did a LOT of handwaving - I need to watch it again to see if my confusion is warranted or not!

Have a tremendous fun time at AHBL! Looking forward to hearing how it goes!
28th-May-2015 08:23 am (UTC)
Ditto. In fact, for much of it I was like - come on! I was desperate to see what they were going to do with Sam and Dean. :))
28th-May-2015 08:24 am (UTC)
*nods* I like it better than S9 and S7 too. At least the boys seem like they could be back to "normal" for S11. That would be really nice. if they were.

VERY curious to see how the darkness will be portrayed.
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