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curled around these images
just enough to make us dangerous
11.07 reaction 
19th-Nov-2015 09:05 pm
Now & Then

Hello old time SPN! I know we all say that when we get a "classic" MoTW episode, but that did have a lot of of classic SPN about it. It was highly enjoyable, with a solid mystery and some great secondary characters.

Great to see Donna again (how awesome is it that some characters appear once and really hit a chord and return? Of course, the fear is they'll one day be killed off, but I'm not even going to think about that). I particularly love the connection she has with Sam and Dean. And it's extra happy making that she brings out the dork in Dean.

The masks were super creepy and I love it when show is creepy! They even managed to revisit poor Sam's fear of clowns (even though it seems so weird that after everything he's been through he's still scared of clowns ;D). I thought it was just a throw-away moment until the woman at the end talks about fear:

"Fear makes you do nothing, or worse, it makes you do something you'll regret".

It was a nice tie into Sam's (almost trivial) fear of clowns to his current very deep fear of the the cage. And the idea that he could do "nothing" (which isn't actually in Sam's vocab) or do something he could regret, is very telling. It's building up to be quite a storyline for Sam this season it seems (yay).

Dean characterisation continues to be curious. This was a much softer Dean (and convinces me that he's not at all soulless), but there's still a little something there. I actually think it's fear as well. Whereas Sam is being quite forthcoming telling Dean about his fears, Dean has continued to keep it to himself. And as much as I'd love Dean to open up as well, it's very much his character to keep it to himself (though *shakes* him. Sam will understand Dean!!).

I'm glad that Dean's "brushing off" of Sam's fears in "Baby" was addressed in this episode. Now that he knows what Sam is actually seeing he seems more concerned. Though he continues to be pissed at "God" (and I don't blame him). Though it makes us wonder if there might be something else going on there (with his connection to The Darkness). We'll see. Though, it does make me worry about Sam being in God's corner and Dean in Amara's and we are heading another major confrontation. This episode was about sibling conflict - AND we are reminded that Michael and Lucifer as still in cage - which is also about sibling conflict. Let's hope it's more about Sam and Dean rising ABOVE the rivalry.

I wonder where Cas was? Not that I care all that much, but after last week's episode it seemed odd that he wasn't even mentioned - aside from the research he had done. He didn't appear to still be in Sam's room - so maybe another room in the bunker? One has to assume I suppose.

So yeah, solid MoTW ep with theme connections to the myth arc. Some great secondary character and, let's be honest, the boys (men!) where damn hot! (I'm so damn grateful that horrid bob is gone. Sam is looking killer!).

Poll! 5 = awesome! 1 = nope.

Poll #2028353 11.07 reaction

I rate 11.07

19th-Nov-2015 01:32 pm (UTC)
I'm wavering on my feelings for this. I liked it. I liked an old fashioned ghost story, burn the artifacts case. I did like Sam actually speaking to people and having a shown POV.

I also had some problems with the story itself. I wish they hadn't used child molestation as a theme. They wanted to have the ghost be somewhat sympathetic, so they ended up discounting the charges. They flat out state that those men were lying or wrong about the uncle, but IRL, it was their kids making the charges and I'm less than happy that a really important real life issue got handled badly. I just wish SPN would steer away from social issues.

I also had minor problems with the Donna other sheriff story. Women get to decide they aren't interested in a certain man for whatever reason and shouldn't be told that they should give him a chance because he seems like a nice guy. And yes, they get to do it for shallow reasons as well as "good ones".

Dean's monitoring of Sam's praying was in character and managed to annoy me. Sam's not asking Dean to believe, he's doing what he needs to find comfort and try to find answers. Reason 1672 why I wish they left God as an actual being out of the world of Supernatural.

All in all this was a pretty good MOTW with some problems, IMHO,
19th-Nov-2015 02:02 pm (UTC)
Hey. Yes, it's a good point. Using important issues as a "throw away" plot is problematic. There was no attempt to address the issue - and I agree that this isn't the show to attempt to do so (unless they are prepared to do it properly).

I wasn't really sure what they were trying to do with Donna and her romance. I actually think it was possibly more about Sam seeing something in himself in Donna and the way she wasn't giving someone a chance to be a part of her life because of past trauma (a rather old connection now for Sam, but it could be a nod to his own past lost chances). I think it was more about allowing herself to heal, rather than it being about being told to like someone she really doesn't like. I also think that Donna is a character in progress. She's a strong woman, but has suffered some past abuse so she's working out how to move forward. But, again, this isn't a show about the ins and outs of romance - we merely get a glimpse and it's almost always connected to Sam and Dean (or a theme) in some way.

I agree is wasn't without problems, but (for me) not as many as many previous eps. I hope we see Donna again and Berens has a chance to write her.

Reason 1672 why I wish they left God as an actual being out of the world of Supernatural.

Oh yes indeed. But God is here and as much as I am intrigued to see where they are going with it, I am also highly skeptical and a little worried. But I'll save that to see where they end up going...
19th-Nov-2015 01:49 pm (UTC)
Sam being in God's corner and Dean in Amara's...

I agree it looks like this is what is being set up...except while Sam thinks his visions are from God, I think there's a strong possibility they are from someone else--Lucifer? And that would be an interesting play out, Sam on Lucifer's side and Dean on Amara's...which brother would be supporting the 'bad guy' then?

But really I hope that since show has already done the boys on opposite sides to death, that your hope will happen, that they work together to overcome the evil.

Also interesting is that Sam is being pretty open about his visions and his fear of what they mean while Dean is hiding his fear of his link to Amara...Sam, in character, is trying to live up to their new 'open communication' policy while Dean is being Dean...
20th-Nov-2015 03:09 am (UTC)
I think there's a strong possibility they are from someone else--Lucifer?

Yes, and I think that would be extremely interesting if they were. Either way, it looks like the brothers have been set up to take sides - which is quite a recurring theme in the show. The message will be about them overcoming those connections to try and find the best solution. As long as the Show allows them to do that. The fact the this episode seemed to make a point of what "fear" can do - for both Sam and Dean - it might be looking at addressing that this season.

Sam, in character, is trying to live up to their new 'open communication' policy while Dean is being Dean…

Yeah, I'm wondering is this is something that will be a journey for Dean. Dean seemed to "listen" when the woman talked about fear. The camera made a point of being on his so it might be about him waking up to letting Sam in on it. But yeah, who knows. He did that in the beginning of last season (admitted he was scared), but then the second half of the season he shut down and acted like he could take care of it all himself. I would love to see this explored further and getting some real breakthroughs for Dean.
19th-Nov-2015 04:43 pm (UTC)
I actually liked that they used a false confession of child molesting. It was something current and fresh. Most of the episode was fun. I've been bored rigid by Crowley and Amara's relationship, so I was glad this was about something else. I felt really sorry for the ghost, though. I hoped his nephew's voice snapped him out of it.

Sam and clowns will never not be funny.

I didn't have a problem with Donna/Doug/the guys. Sam did the same thing with the boy-witch in "Swap Meat". As in encouraging him to go get 'er.
23rd-Nov-2015 01:36 am (UTC)
I've been bored with the Amara and Crowley relationship - until last week. They've parted now, so that's good.

Poor Sam and clowns. It amuses me that he hunts ghosts and demons but his biggest fear is clowns.
19th-Nov-2015 08:12 pm (UTC)
i liked this a lot, my grade's a B+, Donna was written better, (hate Hibbing 911) except the hunter line, it was good. i rate 5 but meant 4

Edited at 2015-11-19 08:15 pm (UTC)
23rd-Nov-2015 01:36 am (UTC)
I think they're trying to find their groove with Donna. I enjoyed her in this ep. :)
20th-Nov-2015 01:29 am (UTC)
I was pleasantly surprised by this episode, probably because the previews made it look so cheesy and inane, so I almost didn't watch it, thinking we were getting a throw-away ep that wouldn't really move the story forward anyway. So glad I was wrong! So glad I watched it! So creepy! And the brother-thing, the parallels with Max Miller's story in Season 1, which is one of my all-time favorite episodes. For a minute I wondered if they'd even cast the same actress as Max's mother, and it sure had me thinking the kid was the evil one, which I'm sure was intentional, given the evil-kid theme this season. Then way to turn that expectation on its rear-end when it turns out the uncle is the victim, although of course he's turned evil because he was wrongfully killed. The "trust" speech Max's mother delivers is wrenching, given all the Winchesters' past trust issues. Hopefully Dean will figure out a way to trust Sam before something terribly happens!
23rd-Nov-2015 01:41 am (UTC)
I thought it was going to be the kid also!! Great switch on that.

I was thinking it might be a throw away episode, so I was thrilled that they put in more about what's going on with Sam. And Dean. The speech the woman gave was very pointed. I think it was a warning to Dean about keeping his Amara bond a secret from Sam. Sam has acted on his fears by telling Dean, now Dean needs to do that same. Be curious to see if he will.
20th-Nov-2015 02:09 am (UTC)
I really liked the fact that the episode was kind of uneven and yet, really old-school scary! That clown in the elevator and poor Sam! Loved the last five minutes. Just entertaining all around, as the Show used to almost every episode. And of course, the last few minutes gives me great hope for the future. A cage-arc for Sam!
23rd-Nov-2015 01:43 am (UTC)
In some way the "uneven" is old school. Even though re sometimes romanticise about old episodes, they were pretty uneven at times.

A cage-arc story for Sam is SO exciting. And unexpected. No idea they'd consider returning to that. :)
20th-Nov-2015 05:14 am (UTC)
I loved this episode like whoa. You're so right about the return to old-school SPN.

It was a nice tie into Sam's (almost trivial) fear of clowns to his current very deep fear of the the cage. And the idea that he could do "nothing" (which isn't actually in Sam's vocab) or do something he could regret, is very telling.

Oooh. Brilliant catch! And seeing as how the final scene made it pretty apparent that Sam would be doing his own thing -- even if that included returning to the Cage -- I really think you're onto something here. Brava!

I neither missed Castiel nor wondered where he was. It felt so good to see original!SPN back on the screen, I did not care a whit.
23rd-Nov-2015 01:46 am (UTC)
You know, after watching it and typing that I was thinking that speech was poignant for Dean also. he is clearly terrified of his connection to Amara (and after the MoC and demon year I can't blame poor Dean) so he can do nothing (and not tell Sam), or end up doing something he'll regret (like he has done in the past). I think it ended up being a great connection for both the boys.

I neither missed Castiel nor wondered where he was.

Haha! I didn't miss him, that's for sure. It just seems so weird that they can make a deal about him being in the bunker and then not even a mention about what he's doing or where he is. Not that I care particularly, but it's almost like he doesn't exist (wistful sigh.;D)
23rd-Nov-2015 04:39 am (UTC)
it ended up being a great connection for both the boys.

Absolutely! Both boys had significant reactions to that speech -- you could see the wheels turning for both of them. This is going to be VERY interesting!

it's almost like he doesn't exist (wistful sigh.;D)

. . . you are soooooooo bad! :DD
20th-Nov-2015 01:06 pm (UTC)
I just can't vote on this one. In many ways I should have liked it, in many ways I did. The character of Donna though has never appealed to me, I can't get past the comedy angle, for me it's a cruel caricature. Jody? Yes. Donna? No. I know that's an unpopular opinion with SPN killing characters left right and centre, so it's probably a personal thing and I accept that.

So that makes it hard to be totally objective with this one, the subject matter also had me on edge. The parallels were well drawn though and I am enjoying the brothers again this season, there's a lot of ribbing and a depth to their humour that seems to have the opportunity to be more, or might not be more, which is more interesting than bland banter for the sake of the 'funny' moment, time will tell how I'll call it in the end.

I'm just enormously grateful they didn't call out Harvey and the Pooka... Hehe.
23rd-Nov-2015 01:51 am (UTC)
Ah, well, if Donna doesn't appeal then it would have been a difficult one to watch. Hmmm, I've not really thought of her as a caricature - I think because she reminds me of the lead character in Fargo. A quirky, but intelligent and strong woman. though, the show does play up on her mannerisms - and size.

For the first time, the brothers really felt on the same page to me (well, this one and the last one). They have secrets, but we can see a bit more about why rather than it just being there to create a rift.

I must admit it's surprising they didn't call out Harvey - seemed like something they could do. Or even Frank from Donnie Darko.
20th-Nov-2015 01:13 pm (UTC)
Loved it! Perfectly crafted old school episode with disturbing horror elements (that bunny was beyond creepy, and I loved the shots when they zoomed in on it in the jail!)

I love seeing Donna on screen, her smile and dimples are infectious and it seems to rub off on the brothers too, which I love (and not thinking about a possible demise either! NO!) I don't know why but the death of the bunny guy felt more hard hitting than usual. I'm not sure it was because of Donna's reaction of an innocents passing, or just me. But yeah, I really felt for him and it gave me unexpected feels.

Yes, I too felt that the words of Chester's sister about fear at the end were important; Is this about Sam facing his fears about the cage? Or Dean 'doing nothing' and his fears of the Darkness? Not sure, but it feels significant, and I hope it's leading to something awfully brilliant.

I adored the whole scene in the car at the end, if felt so season 1 to me, with Dean telling Sam not to worry about his then 'death visions'. I also like the reminder of Sam's faith, another nod to old season.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts :)
23rd-Nov-2015 01:53 am (UTC)
The horror elements were cool!

Watching Donna make the boys smile is always a bonus. :)

Is this about Sam facing his fears about the cage? Or Dean 'doing nothing' and his fears of the Darkness?

I think both. It was a real nod to what they are both facing which I really loved.

Lots of great moments in that ep. Hopefully we'll continue to get those. :)
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